Onix Strata Minis and Maganpan MG 1.6
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New member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 8 Registered: Oct-07 | I would like to get some opinions on these speakers. Is planar-magnetic drivers make all the difference for details in music? Recently, I listened to paradigm 100s and Kef reference speakers, and was wondering if those much cheaper planar-magnetic based speakers can compete in sound with those more expensive speakers? I hear a lot of good things about Minis and MG1.6. Since I dont have an access to those speakers, I would like to know what you people with more experience think about these speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8872 Registered: Dec-04 | Ya gotta have a grip on what you want to listen to for the panels, Ryan. Putting them against a Paradigm100 is useless. If you like the panels, then shop Martin Logan, Magnapan and the rest. You really gotta love panel/stats/mylar to dig the sound. If you ain't sure bout that, invest in a GIC. Or a Mac. |
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New member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 9 Registered: Oct-07 | Thanks for the tip. Actually, I've never heard of any of those "panels" and there's so way of me to say anything on the likes. I just wanted to know what makes them so "unique", or "special" that many people say great things, specifically, for those "planar magnetic" speakers. just another newbie question. Wish I could hear them and save a lot of people's time and efforts. Unfortunately, I dont know any place that carry any of those speakers around me. Have to look around more. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1057 Registered: Apr-06 | Well there is this little dinky store called Best Buy that started carrying Martin Logan, in their Magnolia HT section. Don't know if you have one of those in the Pheonix area  As far as what makes them unique, I think its pretty obvious. A six foot tall panel producing sound sounds a lot different from a 0.75" dome tweeter. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8885 Registered: Dec-04 | Ryan, you are not costing any time or effort from anyone. We are all here to help, man. |
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New member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 10 Registered: Oct-07 | Once again, I thank you for your kind words. And, Stephen, BB didn't even occure to me until you mentioned about it. I just didn't think they would carry any higher end speakers, except those definatives. I'll check out the local BBs. Nuck- I have another question regarding your desktop speaker with a tube amp. I was thinking about getting a pair of small bookshelf speakers with an amp which can be placed on top of my desk, just like yours. Do you know where I can begin my research on that combination (Amp+bookshelf+ computer)? Regards, Ryan |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1371 Registered: Oct-04 | Comparing flat-panel to more traditional designs is an apples & oranges thing. I don't have much to say about the Maggies other than to say that I heard them & their not my cup of tea. I've also heard the Strata Minis and they are exceptional, not to mention they also make quite a statement (they're quite substantive), and a bargain, given the price AV123 is selling their old stock for (about $1500). |
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Bronze Member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 11 Registered: Oct-07 | I would love to try out those Strata Minis. I heard many good things about them. I found a pair for $900 from AV123.com but someone already sealed the deal...hmm Ifeel like I'm getting too greedy with speakers. I already purchased a pair of studio 60 with CC450, and another set of infinity reference speaker set. I should cool donw a bit. Seems like I just can't get enough of it. Indeed, it is a desease! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1375 Registered: Oct-04 | Take it from a fellow addict, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. |
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Bronze Member Username: MagfanPost Number: 14 Registered: Oct-07 | On the other hand....I've been a fan of Maggies for close to 25 years. No 'box' sound, beautiful sound stage/presentation and clarity of image that must be heard. For everyone?...not a chance.....must be heard? You Bet! I liked them the very first time I heard them and have never looked back. One of the 'theoretical' advantages is that ALL the sound starts from the same 'plane', not from mutltiple drivers interferring with one another. This lends what is called coherence to the sound. Maggies are considered revealing of poor electronics and also power hungry. Both seem true. Maggies were (are?) the largest selling single brand of audiophile speaker.... I have some MG-1's, factory rebuilt, that are as good as the day they were made.....late 70's.... while my new 1.6's are a real step up in frequency response and slightly more sensitive. You should give planars a chance and if you have the space and supporting electronics, you may just get hooked. See my setup in system pics. |
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Bronze Member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 12 Registered: Oct-07 | Thanks for your input Leo. Now, I just need to find a local dealer where I can listen to those planar speakers. Christopher- Yes, I'm getting scare of myself, I even start looking at mega expensive gears without going through proper steps, such as training my ears to be able to regconize why one is better than another, or at least, be able to describe my experience and preference in opt way. I feel like a kid playing with a matchbox! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1377 Registered: Oct-04 | Ryan, I've auditioned & tinkered with enough equipment of the past few years to get an idea (actually a hint) of what it is I'm aiming for. Initially I went down the HT road, only to find that it was quality 2-CH that I preferred (for the moment). Fortunately, I've been a bargain hunter, and the most expensive item that I've purchased was a $400 Marantz receiver. I haven't moved up to the next tier, because: A: My ear couldn't (and many time still can't) discern between brands, price-points, solid-state, tubes, interconnects, or just about anything that audiophiles base their opinions on. B. My listening environment does not afford me the ability to listen very loud, and my wife is not keen on the idea of arranging & rearranging speakers, components, and furniture to optimise my listening room, which by the way doubles as my living room. Subsequently, I do most of my listening in a small spare room, which has now morphed from a spare bedroom room into a less-than-ideal listening room/storage-room. This situation needs to change before I move up to that next tier. I don't know if I would ever spend as much for an entire system as some of these good folks spend on one run of speaker wire, I'm just too frugal, but I like nice things & I respect quality and artesanal craftsmanship (like nice NYS made audio components with BIG blue meters), so it's a bit of a dilemma. Thus, I think I'll forever dwell in the land of closeouts, b-stock, refurbs, and used equipment. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1067 Registered: Apr-06 | "Maggies were (are?) the largest selling single brand of audiophile speaker.... " Where did you hear that? According to their website, they've sold "over 200,000 pairs" speakers in their 37 year history. Not puny, but not exactly on par with some of the bigger players either. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1378 Registered: Oct-04 | I bet B&W & Paradigm might disagree with that statement too. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2163 Registered: May-05 | I heard that B&W was the largest speaker company in the world. I don't remember where I heard it or if the source was valid. I appreciate what planar speakers do, butr they're not my cup of tea either. They sound very open and airy, and can be lightning quick. But they just don't sound right to my ears. The one thing I can explain is that bass doesn't seem to integrate well. I don't know how to describe what else, other than it's not my cup of tea. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1379 Registered: Oct-04 | I absolutely agree with your assessment of planar speakers. They just don't sound right to my ear either. I know this might rub some people the wrong way, but I think they're more novelty than anything else. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1068 Registered: Apr-06 | "I heard that B&W was the largest speaker company in the world." I'm not sure that there is enough valid information out there to say who is actually the world's largest manufacturer of speakers. My big guesses in the higher end would be Harman International (JBL, Infinity, Revel, etc) and Klipsch Group (Klipsch, API, Jamo). At the lower end, well.... you have Sony, Phillips, etc. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1069 Registered: Apr-06 | As far as planars: I haven't had the pleasure of listening to any Maggies. I've never really cared for the Martin Logan sound. I do like my little ribbons though! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1380 Registered: Oct-04 | I bet those ribbons do sound sweet. Don't forget IAG which owns Wharfedale, Mission, & Quad. |
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Bronze Member Username: MagfanPost Number: 15 Registered: Oct-07 | No problem with retraction of 'largest selling' claim. I can't remember where I saw it.....maybe in a maggie ad? I'll check the MUG site for some old paperwork. This claim might be a decade or more old and therefore out of date/invalid. I suspect that IAG's current stable of offerings was also not counted, since they were all at one time independent....my brother had some fairly enjoyable Wharfedale W-70-e speakers back in the mid 70's...... As for people not liking the planar sound/presentation, I'm good with that, too. Properly set up...and I mean position/toe-in and distance from the back wall, they present an incredible sound for me. It may take a day or so in any 1 configuration to decide, too. After a good listen to some music in YOUR reference catagory, you may decide on refining the position once again. Don't touch, once setup properly! That being said, I had my old MG-1s in rooms from 1000ft3 to huge, 2 story living/dining areas that must have been 5000ft3 or more. Aftermarket / tweeks are rampant for this brand, as well. Stands? homebuilt and commercial are all over the place. Want to upgrade the X-over? Simple to do...with apparently substantial results. And as one additional point, these (1.6's) made the 'B' list for Stereophile, several years running and were the least expensive speaker in this catagory. Somebody likes 'em! |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2165 Registered: May-05 | Don't get me wrong Leo, they're great speakers. I respect them and appreciate what they do. They excel at their strengths. That being said, they're just not for me. Like every great product, they're not for everyone. Some people hate Naim, Rega, Linn, McIntosh, Bryston, Classe (had to throw that one in, otherwise Nuck would cry). If something was acceptable to everyone, it would be so bland and boring, wouldn't it? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8898 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey, Stu, ya said some people hate 'em. I agree. Also overpriced. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1381 Registered: Oct-04 | If something was acceptable to everyone, it would be so bland and boring, wouldn't it? I'd accept any of the aforementioned equipment. |
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Bronze Member Username: MagfanPost Number: 16 Registered: Oct-07 | Have fun with whatever floats your boat! |
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Bronze Member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 13 Registered: Oct-07 | I just got back from a local dealer where I can listen to Paradigm speakers, and a pair of new Monitor Audio Reference Platinum. Accordingly to the gentleman at the dealer, there are only 10 pairs of these speakers in the states right now. I guess I just got lucky to listen to those new release. Anyway, I know it may sound unfair and even ridicule to many of you, but since I dont know of any decent or hifi speakers that I can compare with, I just have to go with Kef's new reference speakers. To my own taste, I found paradigm 60 V4 very good except the vocal area. I don't know the exact term that I supposed to use to describe such difference, but when I tried Kef's, voice was very real that I felt like I was right in front of the singer when I closed my eyes. I just couldn't get the same engaging experience from the paradigms. I also did listen to 100s, and only felt like they are more powerful and refined, but I could feel that magical voice being all over me. Lastly, I did listen to that new pair from Monitor Audio, and it was as good as those Kef's, but found those speakers to be "too soft" for my taste. I later found out that those speakers were powered by some sort of hybrid tube amp from vicent which most likely the reason behind that softness. I guess I learned that I prefer solid state amp over tube based. I really didn't find the softness that attractive. By the way, that M-Audio is ribbon based speakers, they said. Here comes another newbie question. What is exactly ribbon tweeter, and why is it sound better than other forms? Again, thanks for reading my unorganized thoughts and providing me such great information and guide. Regards, Ryan |
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Bronze Member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 14 Registered: Oct-07 | I just realized that I made a mistake. I meant to say that I couldnt feel the voice being all over me like Kef's reference (paradigm 100s V4). |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1382 Registered: Oct-04 | Ryan, Just to get this straight, the KEFs & Paradigms were mated to a solid-state amp (which?), while the Monitor Audios were mated to a Vincent tube amp? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweeter#Ribbon_tweeter |
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Bronze Member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 15 Registered: Oct-07 | Ah, tha's another thing that I forgot to mention about. A pair of studio 60s were powered by a vincent receiver, and 100s powered by anthem soild state power amp. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1383 Registered: Oct-04 | You think those differences might have affected your opinion? It wasn't exactly an apples to apples comparison. |
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Bronze Member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 16 Registered: Oct-07 | Indeed! It was a huge factor, I believe. I wish I could've asked something more like bryston, or classe amps on those paradigm speakers. If paradigms are famuse for being neutral and good at exhibiting electronics characteristics, I would have to find a way to listen to them with another power source. Honestly, I've never tried any of mid to high-end cd players where they make some noticeble difference in sound quality. I've been using mass-market dvd player for music until recently, and am using an old denon cd player, dcd1700, now. I have a serious doubt that my old denon dcd1700 is much better than those cheap cd players, if any actually. I'm missing a lot of elements to judge fairly on paradigms. I just wish I could've experienced what they can do in their best. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1384 Registered: Oct-04 | Can your local dealer let you listen to that group of speakers all run through the same amp/cd player to get a fairer assessment? |
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Bronze Member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 17 Registered: Oct-07 | I suppose that is possible. I'll try to arrange that. I also forgot to say that I did listen to Paradigm sig8 as well. they were paired up with anthem in a HT set up. Accordingly to him, since they moved around those speakers too much and electronics are not setp up for for its best. Those speakers were very close to each other, and somewhat overpowering the room they were in. I could feel the sounds coming out of two speakers "clashing(?)" and make the whole sound a bit muddy in higher volume. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1385 Registered: Oct-04 | What kind of amp are you planning to use? |
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Bronze Member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 18 Registered: Oct-07 | They have an access to Classe, and parasound from another store where they do service work. I think I can ask them for those two, but they dont carry any bryston. Other than thow two brands, I can try again with an amp from anthem in more controlled setting. They also had vicent mono blocks, but they needed some sort of repair due to some buzzing noise, they were waiting for the parts to fix them. For CD player, they only had some yamaha and few other sony, panasonics (seperate units they can move around).I saw vicent cd player and another from anthem, I think. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1386 Registered: Oct-04 | If you own a solid-state amp at home, then I wouldn't demo with a tube amp at the dealer. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 798 Registered: May-06 | RR, ask them to demo their "best" CD player with the set up you prescribe for them to provide you. Definitely not the Yamaha or Panny. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 799 Registered: May-06 | "That being said, they're just not for me. Like every great product, they're not for everyone. Some people hate Naim, Rega, Linn, McIntosh, Bryston, Classe" Stu, who? Who hates MAC? Why that son-of-a-@$#, I'll murderlize him... "Moe" |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1387 Registered: Oct-04 | "RR, ask them to demo their "best" CD player with the set up you prescribe for them to provide you. Definitely not the Yamaha or Panny." The man is using a Denon CD player cira 1986. If you're not ready for a CD upgrade (I bought an excellent Pioneer DV578A Universal Player for $40), then I would suggest you haul the Denon to the dealer for the demo. |
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Bronze Member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 19 Registered: Oct-07 | Yeah, I find that Denon DCD1700 is better than my other sub $100 dvd players. I don't have a problem with upgrading my CD player, but I just want to get a cahnce to feel any substaintial difference in sound. I've never had a hifi-grade CD player and it is still hard for me to tell if it's the CD player, or speakers that made that "subtle" difference in sound quality. I suppose I just have to invest more time and play with more gears to find out my likes. I've heard that Oppo is a great player for the money. Or, I have a chance to buy an azur640 for pretty much for the same amount of money that I would have to pay for the brand new oppo970. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1388 Registered: Oct-04 | I've listened to the Oppo HD970, and have owned a Boston Acoustics Avidea (still own), a Cambridge Audio Azur 540D, a H/K DVD 37 (just got it), a Marantz DV4400 (still own), a NAD T514, and a Pioneer DV563A (with my brother) & DV578A (still own), as well a generic Apex AD2500 w/Karaoke (still own), and several others (an early JVC CD player & an early RCA DVD player)...Whew! There have been subtle musical differences between the units, all have performed well with the exception of the el cheapo Apex, which is noisy as hell. The Cambridge Audio was very nice with a full size chassis, excellent build quality, and was the only unit that actually felt & looked like a audiophile piece of equipment, but it is in the $200+ price range, whereas the Pioneer units were purchased for about $60 & $40. My new H/K was just purchased new for $60 |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1389 Registered: Oct-04 | Has that Denon needed any repairs in past 21-yrs.? |
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Bronze Member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 20 Registered: Oct-07 | Well, I'm not the original owner of this CD player. I got it free from my friend's father. Accordingly to him, he didn't have to do anything on this CD player. I just love the fact that I dont have to wait for loading and playing the music unlike my other dvd players. I got couple of upscaling dvd players from philips and toshiba, and I just hate waiting for them to be powered on and then wait for them to play again. All I have to do is push the play and it almost instantly play CDs.I dont know much about difference in sound, but I just the player for its fast loading time for sure. |
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Bronze Member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 21 Registered: Oct-07 | Christopher- Since you are very keen about product vales and able to find some great deals, I would like to ask you if the following deal is any good. I found another set of paradigm speaker deal for my friend, and wanted to go by some other people here on the forum. I have a gentleman who's selling his speaker package which contains A pair of Paradigm Studio 60 V2 A pair of Cinema 70 One Paradigm Studio CC V2. Asking price is around $900-1000 Also, what is the difference between cc450 and this CC v2? Thanks in advance. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1390 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm sorry Ryan, I don't know much about those two speakers, and the info on the net is confusing. I cant tell if they're two entirely different models or the evolution of the same model. The only thing I know about the Paradigm Reference Studio series is that the Studio 20 v4 is perhaps the best bookshelf speaker I've ever heard. |
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Bronze Member Username: MagfanPost Number: 17 Registered: Oct-07 | Ryan, Have you managed to listen to some panels yet? You should give it a try before plunking down your cash on speakers. I'd be real surprised that somewhere in Brooklyn/NYC you couldn't find a seller of panels....Martin Logan or Magnepan to start. I have an OPPO DV981 which is OK for music. Really super for HT use, but I would still prefer a dedicated CD player. Magnepan uses a true Ribbon in its 2 most expensive systems. You stretch a very thin piece of conductor, a flat wire, really.....I think Magnepan uses Aluminum, but maybe not...and suspend it between magnets. Pass a current thru the conductor and it vibrates because of the interaction of the fixed magnetic field of the magnets and the a/c field in the ribbon element. They have amazing HF response and will take a bat out at 100yards. The Magnepan unit is a 'bout 4 or 5 feet tall and only a few inches wide/deep has a claimed response to over 40khz.....well past where anyones ears give up. Poor Fido! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1395 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm in Brooklyn, Ryan's in Arizona. And for the record, there isn't a single Hi-Fi shop that I know of in all of Brooklyn (ruffly 2.5 million people). |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 808 Registered: May-06 | convert the restaurant into a hi-fi shop |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8928 Registered: Dec-04 | Here's a cookie, sweetheart. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8929 Registered: Dec-04 | Mike, I think we oughtta open a shop next door. |
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Bronze Member Username: WiredconPhoenix, AZ U.S.A. Post Number: 22 Registered: Oct-07 | I went to listen to some of B&W speakers, specifically, 802D paired up with two mcintosh tube stereo amp(they were using them as a mono for each channel) and 803Ds in HT setting with classe electronics. I found myself with mixed feelings on B&W 802D speakers. I found them to be a little bit too soft on jazz vocals(for myself), and great for loud music and classics. Live's throwing copper album and an old metalica albums were no challenges at all and overall it rounds up the edges of the loudness and make it more enjoyable. From this store visit, I learned that I prefer somewhat bright sound(kef reference 205/2 was a bit bright from my experience) for jazz and vocals while I enjoy classics (orchestra) and loud music (rock, alternative, metal...etc.) to be on the soft side. For jazz vocals,I found the voice was floating in the room but kind of hard for me to feel that the singer was right in front of me. Probably, it's because of tube amps, and am used to listen to those cheap mass-produced (and bright) speakers. I used to hear music on small bookshelf speakers where I could enjoy its speedy and tight sounds and never quite got into extended sound images those big floorstanders produce (well, it never hit me to invest on some better speakers to be exact. I wasn't even interested in this audio/video not too long ago). I blame my lack of experience with different types of gears and illeracy on how to express my impressions in more accurate terms where other people can understand better. Until I get more experience to be able to say what I want in sound, I can only hope for your kindness to share your in-depth knowledge you guys built over the years. Anyway, here's my question of the day. After I came back from the store, I really wanted to try "multi-channel" music, such as SACD and DVD-A. Currently, I dont have a player that can play multi-channels. I thought I could use Playstation 3 as my source, but it turned out that I can get 5.1 only through HDMI. and my old receiver doesnt support HDMI. So, it comes down to whether I should replace my old pioneer elite 35tx receiver, or get a uni player which plays SACD and DVD-A. I would like to get some advice what would be a good candidate for HDMI 1.3 receiver with decent clean power to run infinity reference speakers (2000.6 fronts, 2000.1 backs)? Also, is Hsu sub will be a good fit with these infinity speakers? I plan to use paradigms for stereo music in another set up with and amp. So, no paradigms in the multi-channel for now. Whatever you can tell me, I'd appreciate it. Regards, Ryan |
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Bronze Member Username: MagfanPost Number: 18 Registered: Oct-07 | San Diego's 'Stereo Design' has a huge selection of B+W, Watt, all Magnepans, for a true 1:1 test. Amps include, Rotel, Audio Research, Krell, Classe and many others. This is a weekender for someone living in Phoenix. Sorry to get that mixed up. I know how people in NYC feel about letting Brooklynites over the bridge.....or whatever. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1396 Registered: Oct-04 | I prefer to be called a Brooklyner, we were still part of NYC...at least for the moment. A Recent History of Brooklyn by Christopher Molloy Old Brooklyn lost the Cold-War, it's a foreign occupied territory as far as I can tell where scarcely a word of english is to be heard. New Brooklyn (the neighborhoods immediately adjacent to Manhattan) is similarly occupied, but by domestic enemies, mostly well educated ivy-league Trotskyites, Stalinists, and the useful idiots with pierced tongues that pull them perfect espresso shots day & night. Well, I'm off to a yard sale. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8936 Registered: Dec-04 | fuking beautiful.sniff. |
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