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Archive through May 19, 2011Art100
Archive through December 18, 2010Nick K100
Archive through December 03, 2010David Mitchell100
Archive through September 08, 2010Gavin100
Archive through April 03, 2010Nuck100
Archive through February 14, 2010Nuck100
Archive through January 11, 2010Art100
Archive through August 04, 2009David Mitchell100
Archive through January 21, 2009Art100
Archive through October 26, 2008Nuck100
Archive through August 29, 2008Nuck100
Archive through July 10, 2008David Mitchell100
Archive through June 10, 2008Christopher Molloy100
Archive through April 08, 2008David Mitchell100
Archive through January 05, 2008Art100
Archive through November 11, 2007Michael Wodek100
Archive through October 21, 2007Michael Wodek100
Archive through October 06, 2007Christopher Molloy100
Archive through August 21, 2007Kevin Corr100
Archive through August 12, 2007Art100
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1386
Registered: Oct-10
I agree Art. Sadly, there is a lot of abuse and neglect toward humans and animals alike. Taking all of the children and pets away from people who shouldn't have them would be a huge undertaking. The next problem is where to put all the kids and pets. As for abusing neighbors, blasting the thumping car stereos, letting dogs dump on neighbors' property, the list goes on. Most pds are laxed about taking care of it. Mine is good, but under staffed. SAPD on the other hand are mostly couch potatoes with badges. Reason one why we won't move into the city.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Canada

Post Number: 3481
Registered: Jun-07
Cheap carpet is a germ harvest, 3.79 sq ft Stainmaster 25 carpet is actually easier to clean than hard surfaces and does not stain at all. Anything wet balls up on top for one wipe clean and dog/cat fur balls up and can be simply picked up. Depends on how good your carpet is.

I like cats but hate to own them. I like my pug, he stays.lol.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4753
Registered: Feb-07
Your pug is cool dude. May be our next dog.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 24752
Registered: Jun-06
I shave my cat. I HAVE to. It's my attempt to control the problem. Unfortunately the problem isn't solved by that alone. I also feed her hairball control cat food. Makes no difference. She's also at the age where she can't reach all the areas she used to to clean and groom herself. THAT equates to a problem from time to time. This is a pic of both my cats very young. The fury one is Tweety. The other is Sylvester, an outdoor soldier. He's like a Timex watch. Takes a beating and keeps on ticking. He's 10 years old and been through.........many battles, with dogs, cars, other cats, ect. Limps most of the time and just wants to be left alone lol.

Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1392
Registered: Oct-10
Thanks for the tip Nick!

Nice pic Paul! I'll see if I can upload my son's cat some time. Most of the pics of him are too dark so you can't see his blue eyes. He'll be 2 next month. Breed is called "rag doll".
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14399
Registered: Feb-05
My local police is good as well and under staffed as well. So is DHS, that's who I work for.

Not having answers to the questions such as where do the abused go, is why we wind up suffering from paralysis by analysis.

As for cats, when I come from work and when I go out to work there is always a cat sleeping on the chair on my porch or on the welcome mat...and it ain't mine. It's either one of the two across the street (which I don't mind) or the one next door (which I do mind as it makes all sorts of other messes).

I especially like the spunky one across the street. Even though I run her off nearly daily, she knows I like her so she comes around just to hang out...dang cat... !
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1394
Registered: Oct-10
You remind me of my wife that way Art! She insists that she hates cats, but she is always feeding the local strays and giving my son's cat special treats. The cat usually sleeps on her side of the bed. It's too funny!
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Canada

Post Number: 3485
Registered: Jun-07
You totally need a PUG David.lol What a twosome that would be. Great Dane and a Pug. lol That would be awesome.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14412
Registered: Feb-05
Pug's are actually one of my favs. We have a breeder just down the road. My wife lives in fear...she knows that I like 'em.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Canada

Post Number: 3487
Registered: Jun-07
That is awesome Art. You know a lot of people snob up when you mention you own a pug. I was one of those people once. I grew up with big dogs and always looked at Pugs as being a toy dog which I normally am not fond of at all. Boy was I wrong! Its a compact dog with a huge dogs mentality. They are not yippy what so ever, and they are more loyal to me than any other pet I have ever had growing up. Hands down Bryston (my pug) is the best pet I have ever owned. I am 100 percent a pug lover now. When the sad day comes that Bryston passes away I would not hesitate to own another Pug one day again. In fact I probably will.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4760
Registered: Feb-07
We've done the 2 dog thing a couple of times, and I'm never gonna do that again. If I get a pug, it'll be wayyyyyyy down the line.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Canada

Post Number: 3491
Registered: Jun-07
lol I hear you. Two kids, three pets and a wife. Sounds like a lot of work for one man. haha
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1030
Registered: Dec-06
Thinking about getting a kitty. But I don't know. My family has always had a dog (German Shepherds - great dogs) but I'm living on my own now and don't want a big, messy, rambunctious, and clumsy dog running amok. That's actually not so bad, it's leaving them alone for long stretches that I don't like. I do, however, appreciate the fact that cats are more independent and generally cleaner too.

Anyways, uploading some pics of the Rega DAC and Simaudio stuff. By the way, I'm likely going to buy another component today. It's a doozy, and one that is probably all the evidence anyone will ever need to have me committed. More on that later.

Upload

Upload

Upload

Upload

Clearly the silver finish is the way to go. My dealer's black demo has a few scratches on it that are very easy to see. That said, the camera picks up the scratches more than is noticed when you actually look at the DAC.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1031
Registered: Dec-06
And one last one.

Upload
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14415
Registered: Feb-05
Nice pics, Dan. I really like the Sim gear and always have. Smooth and musical.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4767
Registered: Feb-07
whatcha gonna buy Dan?

Tell me tell me.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1032
Registered: Dec-06
I liked the CD player a lot, Art. Obviously, as I bought one! The Apollo SE has been shown the door. The amp didn't move me as much. A little too smooth and laid back when I had both Sim pieces in the mix. Probably has something to do with the Castle speakers as well. The Exposure is the shot in the arm that the system requires and it seems to all work great together.

Love the Castle Avons too. At first I wasn't sure if I preferred my Tannoys, but over a longer period I've appreciated the Avon more. It is, simply, more musical with a more effortless sound. So I'm selling my Tannoy and Quad speakers. Given that Castle is out of business, I'm going to have to try tracking down the distributor (through the dealer who sold the speakers to me) and ask if they've got spare drivers - just in case.

Pics to come, Dave! Have to go see it first, and make sure it's in good shape and working right. If it is I'll pull the trigger.
 

Gold Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 2335
Registered: Oct-07
Dan,
Don't get a cat if it's going to be alone for long periods. People mistakenly think that cats are loners. Cats are really sociable if you 'speak' cat. Tail, the long wink and other behaviors speak loudly about what is going on catwise.
And cats can be messy, too. They generate awesome amounts of cat fur. If you don't brush 'em and they are long haired, you'll get a furball per week.
People also think cats just sleep when not eating. Not true. They roam around there territory and really need a place to look out. Some variety, you know.
I gave my cats plenty of variety. They'd go next door and sit by the swimming pool. The neighbor would yell over....and my cats would come running home. The neighbor on the other side would lend me his HUGE Black Lab (aka Magic) when my cats wouldn't come in. The big orange one liked to be put on the roof of my house. But it was a PIA to get him down!
The dog would chase 'em in......and never hurt them, except for the pride thing. Than a dog treat.....
Cats also need play time. Chase the string.....ball of yarn.....another cat..... That sort of thing.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4417
Registered: May-05
Very true, Leo. If you ignore a cat, they'll definitely make their presence known. Not like a dog barking or head-butting your hand to pet them, but in a sneaky way.

Our male cat, Buddy, who's pictured above is very affectionate and loves being the center of affection and attention. Since having our daughter, he's done some interesting stuff. He no longer covers his doo-doo with litter in the cat box. When he goes, it takes a few minutes to get the effect, and he gets his attention (not good attention, but attention none the less). He gets on the table and sneakingly uses his paws to knock stuff like keys, mail, etc off.

He's a great cat. He's honestly more like a dog than a cat - waiting at the door, tail wagging when we come home, rolls onto his back to get us to scratch his belly, and so on. I was never a cat person until I met him. He was a few years old when Kim and I started dating.

Our female cat is interesting too. Moreso typical cat, but she's got an interesting personality. She likes to be left alone until she's ready.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1033
Registered: Dec-06
I don't have much experience with cats, but the fellow who's place I was at yesterday has two of them, and they are more like dogs than I thought. They definitely loved attention. If I were to get a cat I'd get two of them, so they have each other's company, and also give them lots of things to play around with. Scratch posts or whatever they need. They'd be alone 8-10 hours a day. Anyways, I doubt I'll go through with it, and if I did I would really investigate it first so I know what I'm getting into and ensure I'm up for it.

Oh yeah, here's what I bought.

Upload

Upload

So, am I nuts? I've wanted one for a while now, and when one that has been unmodified and in great shape came up, from someone local who is a great guy, I said what the hell. I didn't want to spend money on a new table now, but I figure it's a collectible that will do a pretty good job holding it's value in case I need to sell it (which hopefully never happens). So now it's all about learning how to handle the table and it's various parts, and I'm sure I'll take it in to a Linn dealer at some point to get checked out. But the table sounded great at the seller's place, and as per the seller and simply listening to it and watching it operate, it's set up properly. The LP12 is a finicky table, but most LP12 owners suggest that once it's set up right you leave it alone and it should be good for a long time.

Hopefully the LP12 works out, and if so then I really do think I'm done for a long time. Will save up for a while, then focus on tweaks like isolation and power cords. And maybe a used Lingo 2 at some point.
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1407
Registered: Oct-10
Glad to know that the end of the world, which occurred yesterday, didn't harm your turntable!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14424
Registered: Feb-05
Nice catch, Dan. Great sounding deck. Finicky to maintain so hopefully you have a good Linn dealer nearby to help you with the up keep.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1034
Registered: Dec-06
I'm slowly learning, Art. Things like how to remove the arm from the table, how to adjust it, what to do if I need to move the table, etc. I've got a couple of Linn dealers around here too. It's all about learning bit by bit and just getting comfortable with it. I won't do any real work on my own though. Stuff like replacing the power supply or motor, adjusting the suspension, that will all be done by a dealer. The Linn forums look like a great resource too.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 1265
Registered: May-05
Poor camera unfortunately, my digital camera won't capture everything so it's the best I could do. Oh well, still much better than the old set-up.Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1035
Registered: Dec-06
Wow Dak, looks great. The speakers look very elegant, the stand is nice and clean, and I see you've got some bass traps too! Nice job.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14426
Registered: Feb-05
Looks good, Dave. Looks like a comfy listening chair in the foreground (judging by the arm..lol).
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4421
Registered: May-05
Dak,

Great looking system. Haven't heard the speakers nor the amp, but I'm sure they're singing very well in your room. I'm sure the Salk speakers don't have a cult following for nothing.


Dan L,

Congrats on the LP12. It's a great deck. As Art was saying, a local Linn guy will be invaluable. It's a finicky table, but once it's all dialed in properly, it'll stay that way for a while. There's a ton of upgrades for them - some great, and some that'll cost an arm and a leg. An honest Linn guy will be able to help you weed through what's what if the mood should strike you. If it's groovin', I'd say leave well enough alone. We all know how that goes though.

What cartridge are you using?
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1036
Registered: Dec-06
Thanks Stu, it sounds really good, and a definite improvement over the MMF-2.2 in all respects. The 2.2 sounds nice, but it wasn't an exciting and dynamic sound at all. The LP12 definitely shows me what vinyl can sound like. For now I'm going to leave things alone, but given that the table is 22 years old and has never been modified or upgraded I'm sure I'll need to replace the motor and power supply in the near future. When that happens I'll probably also get a new plinth, as they aren't that pricey and I love how the table looks in black. I'll probably also replace the hinges and dust cover, and it'll basically be like having a brand new table. I'll have to consider also getting a Lingo 2 and the Cirkus bearing upgrade, although I've been warned that the latter really changes the sound (and not necessarily for the better).

I'm currently using an entry level Grado cart (the Grado Green I think it's called). It's the seller's cart, and he's letting me use it for a few weeks until I buy my own. The seller has another table in the LP12's class that he actually prefers to the Linn and has his better cart on that. He recommended I purchase an entry level cart in someone's lineup and then if I like the sound I can move up from there. He suggests the Ortofon 2M red. The 2M line is one which many other LP12 owners also seem to like and say provides a lively sound. Sounds like a plan to me, but I'm wondering if I should wait a bit and just get the 2M bronze or black instead. Otherwise, I wonder if I'm going to get the red, like it, and wish I had just spent the money on the bronze or black in the first place. The 10x5 is another cart I'd like to try, after one of the 2M carts.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14429
Registered: Feb-05
With an LP12 you'll want to do far better than a 2M Red.

One of my dearest friends in audio had and LP12 which was his dream table and he loved it but eventually tired of the maintenance (he's a tech) and switched out to a Sota likes it even more. He definitely likes the suspended tables.

With Dynavector you might want to look at the 20X or Karat, both great cartridges.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1037
Registered: Dec-06
Hopefully the maintenance does not get to be too much for me.

Thanks for the tips, Art. I'll keep those two in mind for my first real cart upgrade. Unfortunately at this point they are over my budget. Something at $400 or less would be swell. I probably won't even buy the cart until this fall. so I have a fair bit of time to mull over the decision.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 16199
Registered: May-04
.

"... given that the table is 22 years old and has never been modified or upgraded I'm sure I'll need to replace the motor and power supply in the near future."


Why? If the motor isn't making noise or running off speed, there's no real need to replace it due to age. The Linn motor should run for fifty years plus without problem despite the fact it, like most AC synchronous motors used in turntables, wasn't a costly item. It works and that's what matters - the original LP12 design was all about the bearing, not the motor. If you are going to change motors for a performance upgrade, say, to a DC motor, then that's a different story. But you've only had the table for a very short while, Dan, don't start getting yourself into the "How can I spend money on this" trap already. One of the things I disliked about audio sales was the constant "blue skies" approach taken by too many sellers, professional and not. "Folks, can't you just see this wonderful double wide sitting on your own 25X35' lot after we put that nice looking red pin stripe right down the side here?"

The Grado green isn't a cartridge I'd pair with the Linn. Both pieces have a tendency toward a ..., uh ... "bloom" in the midbass and together could be too much for anything other than a very lean system. Since this is a temporary cartridge, I wouldn't judge the character of the Linn by the sound you perceive with the Grado in place. On the other hand, "lively" is sort of what the LP12 is all about and that too can be overdone with the addition of another similarly voiced cartridge.



The Cult of Linn is a dangerous place to be, Dan. The LP12 has been a table that has inspired many writers, both pro and con, to exagerate their opinions of the table's prowess. It oftem seems as though anyone who has even simply walked by a house with a Linn table in it has an opinion of the LP12. I've often found those who love their Linns to be somewhat blinded by their devotion. Those who dislike the table can be even worse in their hyperbole. For good or bad, the LP12 is what it is. Taken at face value there's a lot to like about the table. I would, however, caution against being sucked into the Linn world and never coming out the other end. IMO, this is definitely, "one bite makes you small and one bite makes you large"

and the ones that mother gives you
don't do anything at all
go ask alice
when she's ten feet tall
and if you go chasing rabbits
and you know you're going to fall
tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar
has given you the call



Congrats on the upgrade and good luck with the table. Go slow. IMO, the first thing to do is get the table off that cabinet. The LP12 is extremely sensitive to placement.





.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1038
Registered: Dec-06
Thanks for the tips, Jan. I don't plan to replace the motor or power supply unless it goes. I guess I just assumed after 22 years that wasn't far off. And even the Cirkus bearing upgrade, which I've been warned changes the sound. If I find myself really enjoying the sound of the LP12 without the upgrade, it would certainly be risky to mess with that. So I think I'm leaning against this particular upgrade. But as you alluded to, there is plenty of time to worry about this stuff, and I'm best to take it slow.

One thing I do wonder about is the power cord. Do power cords last a long time? The cord on the Linn is similar to the cord on my 20 year old vaccum cleaner. The jacket kind of feels thin and warn, and the cord has lost some of the stiffness it had. Is it advisable to get that replaced eventually?

I understand the comment about bloom in the midbass. I do hear it. I think I'll just continue to read what other LP12 owners have been successful with to narrow down my choices.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4423
Registered: May-05
Linn's Adikt cartridge is very good for the money. The Dynavector 10x5 is better for I think a few bucks more. Like everything else, everytime I look at the prices, they've gone up. I bought the 10x5 about 2 years ago for $380. It's currently $450.

It's easily worth $450 IMO, and is one of the very few universal recommendations in audio - I'd recommend it regardless of one's personal preferences, as I think it's that good. I haven't heard anything come close within $200 or so. I auditioned it along with the Adikt, and comparably priced Ortofon, Grado, and Goldring on my deck at the dealer's shop. I heard it second, and it was one of those auditions that every cart afterward I was asking myself why am I wasting my time. It was that good.

I wouldn't go any lower than an Adikt or 10x5 level cart on the LP12.

According to my dealer, the LP12 gets a bad rap as far as service is concerned. And he leaves no doubt about how he strongly dislikes how people can't leave well enough alone with the table and the excessive prices of the upgrades. He chuckles and admits it helps pay the bills, but he doesn't hype up that stuff at all. Same with his Naim gear. He likes to keep things simple and have as few essential boxes as possible. My kind of guy.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4424
Registered: May-05
Sorry, in my rambling I forgot to add...

The only thing I'd obsess over with the LP12 is placement. That'll have far more dollar for dollar impact than anything else. And you don't have to spend a ton of money. Use stuff around the house - wooden cutting board, stuff under the cutting board like erasers or squash balls cut in half, etc. A cheap and reportedly great solution is an Ikea Lack end table if you have an Ikea near you. Less than $20 if they haven't raised the price or discontinued it. The Ikea Corras is an alternative for similar money.

Or you can get a wall shelf if your layout permits it. Other than a new cart, those are far better investments than anything else IMO.

Not to change the subject...

I've got a Kimber Hero with WBT 0144 locking interconnects on loan. It'll be interesting to hear it against my Audioquest King Cobras. I hate that the King Cobras' connectors aren't tight at all. They sound good, but now that I'm done buying components, it's all about fine tuning things. Can't do much more with the room, as I'm renting and hopefully leaving at the end of the summer.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1039
Registered: Dec-06
Thanks Stu. If the Adikt is that inexpensive I should obviously give it consideration. And of course the 10x5, which I know many of you guys like.

I forgot to mention that the LP12 is off the cabinet. I only put it there when I brought it home. It's now on top of my Target stand. I'll look into further tweaks for placement. I've read that wall mounted platforms are a good option for the LP12.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4425
Registered: May-05
If I'm correct, Linn used to advise a wall shelf about 2 feet off the floor. Linn detractors used to say it was because Linn's founder Ivor Tiefenbrun (spelling?) wanted his customers to kneel before his LP12.

I think it was Jan who told us the second part of that. As eccentric as Ivor is, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was true.
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1413
Registered: Oct-10
Well Dan, your table certainly is classy looking. Do you happen to know what kind of wood that is?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 16201
Registered: May-04
.

"One thing I do wonder about is the power cord. Do power cords last a long time? The cord on the Linn is similar to the cord on my 20 year old vaccum cleaner. The jacket kind of feels thin and warn, and the cord has lost some of the stiffness it had. Is it advisable to get that replaced eventually?"



There's no need - and very many reasons not - to do anything about the power cord on the LP12. The only exception to that general rule would be if the cord/plug is visibly damaged or the insulation is cracked to the degree bare wire is visible and there is a danger presented by the cable. Otherwise, there's no advantage to changing the AC cord on the Linn. The motor is essentially a clock motor and there's nothing that a power cable could do to improve its performance. If you run a high performance power supply with the table, then the ps should have a decent, though not extravagant, cable attached to it. Consider the basic AC motor as fine with a cable that looks similar to what is on your vacuum cleaner.

Replacing the power cable that comes with the LP12 can influence the performance of its suspension by placing too much weight on the chassis. Depending on the platform of your table the power cable was run to the under chassis power supply which should, along with the motor, be fixed in place. If this is how your table is set up, then the cable Linn supplied is the cable Linn intends you to use. Nothing mysterious about it but Linn is fussy about non-Linn parts. If the cable is actually in need of replacement, this is very likely to be a part that should come from Linn. Otherwise, if the cable is not damaged, I wouldn't touch it except to plug it into a wall outlet or a high grade power supply.



The Linn is somewhat tricky to set up well and this difficult to get right reputation fed into the mystique of the Linn being a superior table - when it was properly set up and placed on an appropriate stand. Not so well set up and not well placed and the Linn became a good but hardly a great table. A handful of techs were supposedly able to eek out the very best from the table and they were held in worldwide esteem for their talents. Truth be told there was more than a small bit of alchemical hocus pocus when these great soothsayers transmuted a collection of 1970's parts into sonic gold. The slippery slope leading into the cult became just a tad more slanted as they commanded higher and higher prices for their services.

Whatever you believe about setting up the Linn is up to you. It was and always will be a somewhat finicky table that, according to legend, gradually drifts out of proper alignment even while it sits on a stable support. Yearly visits to a tech (better yet! by a tech which serves to feed the Linn owner's soul when they can have an annointed tech come out and stay in their guest cabanna for a week while tweaking the LP12 daily/hourly/for each track on the LP - better than having DeNiro give you a, "Hey", in the restaurant) are often recommended by Linn dealers and any change in the table away from Linn approved components might negate your chances of having them accept the table into their shop. On the other hand, you might find a Linn dealer with a good deal more perspective on just what the LP12 is.

IMO, with the Linn, after you've assured yourself the table is set up to the best of its ability according to the vintage of your table the support system is your first concern since the Linn responds so dramatically to what it rests upon. If you are going to use a stand of any kind, a short, light and extremely rigid system is typically the best choice for the LP12. Kneeling in the Cult of Linn is less acepted than is actually genuflection and a dose of self falgellation followed by a hair shirt as you play only Linn approved LPs.

Be careful as you move the table as the fairly soft suspension springs can go out of alignment as you tinker with placement. Use some cardboard wedges in the suspension to stabilize the subchassis whenever you move it. If you don't know already, there is one position for the platter to rest upon the suplatter. Most owners mark both components so they can always return their platter to its correct location. If your platter isn't marked, then you might want to check with the previous owner as to whether this has been tended to over the life of the table.

After you have the support system worked out, turn your attention to speed stabilization. This more than any other area of table performance is what, IMO, will make the music seem real. If you attend to those two areas first, then according to the Linn heirarchy of modifications - which has the table holding primary influence, the arm as secondary and the cartridge as the least important component - even a $39 cartridge will sound better in a well set up LP12 than would a $2k cartridge in a poorly set up LP12. Overall, my experience with high end tables and LP12's in particular would bear that plan out as being the wisest path to satisfaction with your table.

Mike Wodek owns a LP12 and has done some mods to his table. You might want to go up to his pics and look at how he has his table set up. It begins with a 50lb bag of sand. He also had what we both agreed was an interesting experience with cartridges. I'll send him a message and try to get him to place some input here for your reading.

Don't take my kidding too seriously, Dan. I've seen LP12 owners take some serious abuse from some too self important Linn dealers. For awhile the Linn developed a following that was out of bounds with the table's abilities. There wasn't a questioned asked in the British audio press than couldn't be solved by buying a Linn and having it set up by so and so. The existence of VPI and SOTA over here tended to quash the cult's flames on this side of the pond but Linn dealers have been - as a whole - a peculiar sort. "Evangelical" comes to mind.


http://www.sondek-turntable.com/index.htm




.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1040
Registered: Dec-06
Sorry, can't say exactly what kind of wood the plinth is made from, James.

Thanks Jan. I wouldn't consider adding an aftermarket power cord, but rather replacing the one I have with a new one from Linn. I guess the insulation is a bit worn, which seems to happen over 20 years if my vacuum cleaner is any indication, but yes there are no tears that expose bare wires. So I guess this is not a concern.

The table sounds pretty darned good to me right now, with the Grado. Of course, I'll purchase something else soon. I think I will focus on support too, maybe trying the things Stu suggested and also checking out what Michael has done. I think my Target stand is probably not ideal, but it's relatively light and rigid so it may be a decent option over the near term until I can try other things.

I will probably get a used Lingo 2 at some point, which should address speed stabilization. The Ittok seems to be very well regarded, and mine is in great shape, so I don't think I'll change the arm. I will probably upgrade my phono stage at some point too. The Sonneteer Sedley has caught my eye (one dealer has one for sale at $700), as has the Primare R20 or R32, and the Linn Linto. The R32 seems like a better sonic match for the LP12 than the R20. Too bad, because the R20 looks like good bang for the buck compared to other preamps in it's price range. I've also read the Linto's load cannot be adjusted, and so it pairs well with Linn carts but often not as well with other brands. Guess that's something to consider. Don't want to rush into anything though. My 640P is nothing special compared to these other preamps I'm sure, but it costs me nothing to keep it and it's working just fine.
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1414
Registered: Oct-10
That's ok Dan. I just thought you might have known.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4432
Registered: May-05
For a phonostage in the $700 range that's very flexible and sounds fantastic, one word... Dynavector. They come up for a good price every now and again on Audiogon. Its a good bit cheaper than $700 used. It's a very popular phonostage with the Naim followers, and a lot of Linnies except it, even though it's not made by Linn. That should tell you something.

There's an appreciable difference between the the original and mkII versions, but not night and day where you're better off spending a few hundred more on an mkII if all else is equal on the second hand market.

But remember, one thing at a time. It would normally make more sense to figure out your cartridge before a phonostage, but the Dynacector is easily configurable to any cart but the most eccentrically and absurdly designed ones.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1041
Registered: Dec-06
Thanks, Stu. Dynavector is on my list of stages to consider. One thing that attracted me to the Primare, besides build quality, is that it does not use a wall wart power supply. Not that those are necessarily bad, but it seems everything in this price range aside from the R20 uses one. But the R32, the better sonic match as far as I can tell, is a lot more expensive than the R20.

There's a thread on the Linn forums where people insist the felt mats must be replaced (annually, say) in order to get the best sound. They also insist that one side is better than the other. They make it sound like the difference is night and day. People who have an old mat, or who have not tried different sides, don't know what they are missing and likely don't have an LP12 that is performing to it's potential.

Now maybe these people are right, but I'm more than a little skeptical. Why doesn't Linn label one side as either "top" or "bottom" if the difference is so large? My mat is in good shape, I could use either side, but I picked the side that looks cleaner just because it looks better. My LP12 sounds fine and I'm not in the market for a new mat.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 1266
Registered: May-05
Slightly better pics of the system and room. I'm waiting for Leo to do his magic on these. Notice the Jenga blocks under the CDP. I knew Jan would be proud of this. LOL DaveUpload
Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1415
Registered: Oct-10
Those are better pics Dak. It looks like a cozy arrangement. Great for listening to romantic music with the wife in the evening.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 16202
Registered: May-04
.

" Notice the Jenga blocks under the CDP. I knew Jan would be proud of this."


I would have been.


But you chose the wrong color block. And the other side should be facing up.





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Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 16203
Registered: May-04
.

"There's a thread on the Linn forums where people insist the felt mats must be replaced (annually, say) in order to get the best sound. They also insist that one side is better than the other. They make it sound like the difference is night and day. People who have an old mat, or who have not tried different sides, don't know what they are missing and likely don't have an LP12 that is performing to it's potential.

Now maybe these people are right, but I'm more than a little skeptical. Why doesn't Linn label one side as either 'top' or 'bottom' if the difference is so large?"




Like most manufacturer's forums, Linn neither encourages nor discourages such comments regarding their products. As the old show biz proverb goes, "Any advertising is good advertising as long as they spell your name right."



Mats make a substatial difference in the character of the LP12. Once again the legend has it that one side of the OEM Linn mat is superior to the other. If you can't hear it, you're table isn't up to snuff. Ahhhh, yes, the I can p!ss higher up the tree approach to turntable ownership. It's one of the qualities many Linn owners are known for. Be careful on the forums, Dan, some of those folks have been doing their schtick for almost forty years now.

Overall, I've found the Linn mat to be the least favorable of most good options. YMMV. Today any table with a thin aluminum platter is behind the curve in most listener's opinions with just a thin felt mat in place. The resonance of the platter ("exciting" might be a good way to describe the sound of the felt mat on the aluminum platter) is suggested as one good reason for there being just one correct position for the platter to sit on the subplatter. Supposedly, there is one location where the subplatter is better at damping the ringing of the platter. (However, I'm afraid if I mention too much about resonance, leo will start in again on accelerometers and software programs. )

IMO you're better off just replacing the Linn mat with something more like the RingMat. But mat materials are subjective and system dependent. What I've never favored myself is anything that tends to damp the Linn platter with a silicon or Sorbothane material. Too much Ying mated with too much Yang. Sort of like mating "warm" speakers to a "bright" amplifier IMO. Record clamps and weights are also verbotten on the Linn.


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Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1042
Registered: Dec-06
I can't imagine when Linn made the LP12 in the first place, that they decided to design the platter to be placed on the subplatter at a specific point, and not label it! I can't imagine that they designed the mat so that one side was better than the other, and again not label it! The mat looks the same on both sides, the platter and subplatter look the same to me all the way around.

IMO, these things became part of Linn lore after the table took off and people started to analyze to death every little bit of the design. It was not built into the design by Linn, and that of course means that when Linn themselves listened to the table they found it satisfactory without tending to these matters.

Well, that's how I see it. Would you concur?

I think different mats might be worth trying, but I should probably address the cart and support first, perhaps the preamp too. I'll probably give the Ringmat a try one day - too bad it's so ugly!
 

Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 2435
Registered: May-06
First, cats. I had one. My wife's ex bought it as a gift for his kids. We each had 3 kids, ages 2 to 7 and the cat wasn't going to stay with claws. "Candy", I thought it was a female at first, decided he wanted to live outdoors 75% of the time. He would come home bloodied but it would not be his blood. We got a dog after the cat and our Border Collie / Akita mix deferred to the cat. Candy lived 14 years. I would have another cat in a heartbeat but Marsh thought one was enough.

Next, dogs, I mentioned Sophie who we got after Candy. She's now 14. We also have a 4 year old Boxer, Isabelle, who my step-son had to have, but moved out and left her with us in her best interests. Now the shocker of shockers. Marsh who has daily complaints about dog odor in the house senses that Sophie is nearing her end and that Isabelle should have a companion. She then suggests that I get another Boxer for my own as my Christmas present (Sophie is my other step-son's but she knows she's Marsh's and mine too). So being smarter than the average bunny I go and buy one in about 22 hours to make sure I get it done before she changes her mind. Now I have Edie, Isabelle, and Sophie. BTW, Sophie has been rejuvenated by the arrival of Edie and I twice a day get to walk 3 dogs around the sub-division potty bags in hand.


Upload
Sophie getting groomed
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She looks better with hair but it does not work out with the Texas heat

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Isabelle and Edee bonding

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Edee and I planted the roses. She dug the holes.
 

Gold Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 2354
Registered: Oct-07
I worked on one of the pictures Dakulls sent me.
I'll post it and see if it looks enough better to bother. The files are VERY small. For you non-photographers out there, this is the photographic equivelent of a low bitrate MP3 played thru an average car stereo.
Here goes::Upload
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 16204
Registered: May-04
.

No, I would guess - not having been there - that Linn just put out the best table they could in 1974. To begin analyzing what has transpired since that date is too much for me to worry about. No one at Linn has ever denied the idea the LP12 was a major rethinking of the original 1950's AR table - the first suspended subchassis table available for consumers - and the few designs of suspended tables which had come since. What Linn is credited with above all else is getting people to listen to the quality of turntables as they relate to the entire system sound. No one had thought much about turntables though there were some obvious favorites before Linn came into play. The AR was a decided favorite and the Duals had consistently good sound but the turntable world was dominated by the Japanese belt drives and automatic changers in the early 1970's. Pioneer PL12D's and some Marantz tables were considered good while the British plugged away with lines such as Ariston and Connoissuer - a personal favorite, the Connoissuer table had a lever for the "on/off" switch which also had a rubber bumper on the end and it came into contact with the platter when you threw the switch to give the platter a slight boost in start up. But Tiefenbrun was aggressive in demonstrating his table had a significant, if not primary, influence on the quality of the system as a whole. Others jumped on his wagon but Tiefenbrun was the most influential, loudest, fastest, most omni-present, and most critical of his detractors voice in audio at the time and he can be credited with changing the way most listeners think about music reproduction. For that alone the LP12 deserves its place in the most important audio products of the last fifty years lists whenever any magazine compiles such a grouping.

Since the LP12 was introduced audio has changed in some unexpected ways. With only a handful of expections, what we listened through in 1975 has very little in common with the equipment we can choose from today. Probably more than anything else the cartridges which were available in 1975 simply couldn't extract the information that comes from today's best cartridges. (One of the notable exceptions to that statement would be the Denon DL103 moving coil which was a lesser known design at the time but which has held its own in the competitive market of cartridges up to today.) I doubt anyone who has lived through the changes in audio which have occurred over the last fifty years could even imagaine the amount of information that actually exists in the grooves of some "ancient" recordings.

The current LP12 is IMO a strange bird trying to remain significant in today's market. It remains one of the very few worthy choices in suspended subchassis tables as most designers who favor a suspension are now copying the LP12 or trying to out Linn the Linn. A 2011 LP12 is still a class A table but at a price of about $10k for the real deal. That says the basic design is worthy but to stay ahead of others Linn has struggled to make the current LP12 relevant with a design that harkens back forty years and with one expection needs to allow for any LP12 ever built to be upgraded to current top o' the line status. Turntables are the bumblebee that shouldn't fly and when you consider the history of the LP12 it is decidely the queen bee in that colony. People have made more - and less - of the LP12 than any other audio product I can think of with the possible exception of the original LS 3/5a design. Both products exist in that rarefied air of audio products which have survived for decades.

Linn is a strange company which demands unheard of allegiance from their dealers to the Linn philosophy. Their influence on the audio market is well outsized from their actual sales within the audio market. They broach little variance away from the company line and yet they also allow the Linnites their say in how the table - and the rest of the Linn line up - is viewed by the world. In a sense they couldn't stop people from talking about their products any more than they would want to.

Linn still shows their table with the basic felt mat that has been a staple of their design since the '70's. Are they saying the felt mat is the best mat? Or, are they saying, "See, Ivor knew best way back then?" I don't know, Dan. The audio market has been strangely divided into groups and one group doesn't give a flip about the gear. There are more than a few music lovers who still own their original LP12's with a Quad integrated amplifier and a pair of LS3/5a's who do nothing more than enjoy music making in style. The gear is completely secondary to them and it would be difficult to convince them the audio world has moved in any way to improve what they bought in the 1970's. Another group insists on one side of the mat sounding superior to the other.

I will tell you that my experience tells me never to doubt the illogical simply because I initially think it is illogical. It's not about what you hear as much as it is about what you perceive and perception does not occur when the pressure waves excite your eardrums. Perception exists within your mind and there is a long, winding and not completely understood path from the ear to the mind. Any good advocate of Peter Belt will give any advocate of Ivor Tiefenbrun a run for the money when it comes to debating what can be perceived.



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Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1044
Registered: Dec-06
I think I'm leaning to one of Stu's suggestions with a Linn Adikt cartridge. The price is right and comments online seem almost universally positive. More than one person says it's great playing rock music, which is right up my alley. Seems like a great cart to start out with on an LP12.

As for the support system, I'm mulling over purchasing a small table from Ikea, which might be ideal. I don't like how low it would be though. Alternatively I'm thinking about creating a base to rest on top of my Target stand, made of 1" thick maple. I don't know if that would be light enough, 10lbs perhaps. I could rest it on erasers, hockey pucks, small pieces of wood, or little vinyl footers (this would be a nice touch). Maybe I'd need to experiment. I'm guessing this would be a better bet than right on my stand, which actually has a fair bit of mass when one considers the fact that the stand is holding an amp and CD player. With that in mind, decoupling the turntable's support from the stand is probably the goal here.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4436
Registered: May-05
My complaint with the Adikt was that it was a touch bass heavy. Using Nirvana's In Bloom and Steppinwolf's The Pusher and Magic Carpet Ride tracks, the bass seemed to trip up a little bit. My system is on the lean side of the spectrum, so if you've got enough bass, it may put it over the top. Don't interpret that as I thought the bass was overblown or loose, I just seemed a little tipped up in that region. That was on my Pro-Ject 1Xpression with Speedbox, acrylic platter, and B60. Can't remember exactly which speakers (it was at the dealer's shop), but they weren't using anything noted for heavy bass. Maybe Linn Katans, but possibly not.

The 10x5 sounded a bit lighter and quicker. More agile perhaps. It's bass may have dug deeper and was more controlled (not that the Adikt's wasn't well controlled), but it wasn't hyped up at all. At first listen, I thought it was bass shy. After spending time with it, I realized it's just quicker and less of a focus in the overall character of the sound.

Some say the 10x5 is a touch too lean and a bit bass shy. I haven't heard anyone criticize it's quality at all though. System synergy, like everything else IMO.

The 10x5 sounds excellent on the LP12 IMO. At least in every system I've heard it in. It pulls off soundstaging and imaging better, has a bit better tone, texture and clarity to my ears. It does the PRaT thing and grooves just as well as the Adikt. I dont think anyone has ever thought any Dynavector sounded slow or dull. But if you crave bass, I can see the Adikt winning out. Had I not heard the 10x5, I'd own the Adikt without any reservations. It's a great and under appreciated cart IMO. If the price difference is significant, that could change things. When I heard them, they were within $20 of each other.

Just my thoughts. Everyone's ears ate different.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1045
Registered: Dec-06
Thanks Stu. Your comments on the Adikt echo those of the review on the Soundstage! site. I'll keep that in mind. Not planning to buy yet, so I've still got time to think about it. I've pretty much settled on one of these two carts.

I would say my system overall is very well balanced when it comes to CDs. With the LP12 and Grado it feels like there is a lot more bass. I don't mind it, in fact it's very engaging and fun to listen to, and the overall musical message comes through in spades. So I don't crave bass now, in fact I've got plenty of it and like it, so maybe that means the Adikt would work. Well, I probably wouldn't hate it if it was toned down a little from the Grado...while fun now, I could see the bass becoming a little annoying in the long run.

I'm glad you guys suggested I move up from the 2M Red, as I'm sure if I bought it I'd soon wish I would have spent a few hundred more. One can obviously do better than a $400 cart on an LP12, but it's not a bad starting point.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 1267
Registered: May-05
Leo,

Thanks for the assistance. That's a much better picture in terms of color and light saturation. I never doubted you for a moment.

Jan, thanks for the input. Actually, I have half the blocks "face up" and half "face down" since you gave me no detailed instructions. I tried to find cherry or rosewood blocks to match the speakers and the stand but Jenga isn't into high-end blocks yet.

Not sure how we got on pets but I have two dogs. Chesapeake Bay Retriever ("CBR") for fans and a half Dachsund/Llasa Apso mix. The CBR is 11 and the puppy is 6 months.

I'd post pics but . . . see above. I need to put Leo on staff.

Dave
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 16206
Registered: May-04
.

I wouldn't underestimate the value of a $400 cartridge, Dan. Phono cartridges are strange items and at times there is a very significant bit of trickle down engineering evident in some lines. In the Linn heirarchy the cartridge is the least important item within the turntable loop. The logic behind this thinking is a stylus should only respond to the movement of the record groove beneath its tracing edges. (Remember here that stylus shape will mean more or less influence from VTA adjustments. If your arm doesn't have highly variable VTA or you don't care to adjust VTA for each disc, then stay with a simple elliptical stylus profile and avoid anything fancier than that.) Any movement of the cantilever not related specifically to the undulations of the groove will result in randomly modulated noise and lost information.

Therefore, maintaining perfect speed consistency, minimizing "noise" generated by the mechanicals of the turntable system which results in a deviation away from the concentric path of the groove by allowing a "wobble" to enter the system and holding the cartidge physically in an exact place while minimizing the effect of the arm's "effective" mass, the arm geometry, skating effects and the arm/cartridge resonances are of a higher priority than is the cartridge itself. To emphasize the logic behind their thinking the classic Linn exhibit would have a top o'the line LP12 fitted with a near bottom of the line cartridge (maybe a $39 Goldring before Linn marketed their own cartridges) which would be compared to, say, an automatic changer or a direct drive, servo controlled table fitted with a top o'the line cartridge. For most listener's tastes Linn never lost that comparison.

When considering a new cartridge, don't forget you are first and foremost pairing the mechanical systems of cartidge and tonearm and then tonearm and table. The energy coming from the cartridge must go somewhere and it will, in virtually all cases, end up in the arm which then must dissipate that energy either by internal damping systems or by directing the energy through the length of the arm and bearings and dumping it into the plinth where the larger, more dense materials of the table can more effectively deal with the problem. The Linn arms are, for the most part, undamped by the plinth and all damping must take effect within the arm before the resonance hits the bearings or chatter will result. This makes matching the Linn arms to the cartridge far more important than it is on most other tables.

You must begin by matching the compliance of the two systems - the cartridge as a spring and the tonearm as a mass - to mate well when tracking a dynamic record groove. For most of your records this will mean establishing a peak resonant frequency of the system which will allow the arm/cartidge to effectively track a slightly off center or warped disc surface. Most of the Linn arms are a medium/high mass design which would immediately eliminate any low mass/high compliance cartridges from consideration. Fortunately, once you get beyond the all too ubiquitous OM series of Ortofon cartridges still fitted to too many OEM decks, there aren't a lot of low mass/high compliance cartridges on the market today other than the Soundsmith designs which are based on the old 1980's B&O series of cartridges with a healthy dose tweaking and modification.

That moves you into a medium-ish mass cartridge with medium to low compliance as your goal. Higher mass cartridges can work with the Linn arms but the stock counterweight will be sitting well back on the arm in order to balance the system. This makes for a higher "effective mass" in the total system which makes for less detail retrieval and worse tracking of warps and non-concentric discs which will, to some extent, be every LP you own. Ideally, you should aim for a cartridge/arm combination that can fit the counterweight as close to the main bearing as possible. If non-standard counterweights are not available for your arm, then you need to pay more attention to the mass of the cartridge.

Mass and compliance typically become mutually beneficial specs and with few exceptions higher mass cartidges are also lower compliance designs. This makes sense in that a high mass cartridge body resting on a high compliance spring would collapse the spring assembly. Lower compliance and higher mass though can almost always tend towards a cartridge that puts more energy into the arm - thus the prominence of a quality arm over the cartridge's capabilities in the heirarchy of table upgrades. If the bearings and structure of the arm cannot deal with the energy inserted into it by the cartridge, the arm will begin to resonate and that resonance will find its way back into the cartridge in the form of "random motion" and noise. I'm hoping you remember the downsides to random motion within the closed loop of the turntable system.

All of this is to say you need to pay more attention to the mechanical specs of a cartridge than you do to the forums suggestions of which cartridges sounded good in the Linn arm. Most people pay no attention to the mechanical matching of a cartridge to a tonearm and rely strictly on the sonic character of the cartridge to the exclusion of everything else. They choose a "rock cartridge" (funny though, they'd never choose a "rock speaker" though both a cartridge and a speaker are transducers and therefore have the largest variation in character) or a classical cartridge or jazz cartridge, female vocal cartridge, etc, without thought to how well the cartridge works with the tonearm to extract maximum information from the groove with minimal noise.

Obviously, sticking with the Linn cartridges and a Linn arm will provide you some assurance the mechanicals properly fit together. In the case of the Adikt though, I would personally place the overall nature of that cartridge to be less than that of the Ortofon Red. The Adikt has been around for a good while now while the Red is a new design from Ortofon. Read this as neither a recommendation for the Red nor a comdemnation of the Adikt. As I said, the Adikt fits all of the mechanical requirements of a good match with a Linn arm and the mechanicals should take precedence over the sonics when you begin to choose cartridges for a known arm. Ideally, the sonics should tend toward neutral for the most extensive range of discs you might play. If you remember that you are buying the mechanicals first and the sonics second, then you should be in better shape than someone who just buys sound and hopes for the best when it comes to machanicals.

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/tonearmcartridge.html

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/170/index.html

http://turntablebasics.com/

http://www.vinylengine.com/articles.shtml

http://www.musicangle.com/feat.php?id=54



I'd hoped for more information from MW about his table and cartridge than we got. His dogs are very nice dogs though. My recollection of his cartridge selection began with an Adikt but, for some reason, MW is tough on cantilevers and he bent several before he switched to a Benz(?) cartridge. I seem to remember he bought a Glider which resulted in a damaged cantilever and while that was being repaired he briefly had an Ace "S". When he reinstalled the Glider he was rather disappointed in the very small increase in performance the more than three times as expensive cartridge actual achieved. The one time I heard the Ace and then since the Glider, I would have to agree with that conclusion. As I said, don't ignore the lower priced designs simply because you feel you should be spending more since you own a pricier table. The arm will be the determining factor in which cartridge fits best with your system. The table determines which arms will work in your system.

While most people don't get into buying arms, a higher quality arm will improve the performance of any cartidge more than you can manage by placing a higher priced - and often more prone to exciting the arm - cartridge in a lesser arm. If your choice comes down to having "X" dollars to spend, put it into the arm and not the cartridge for best performance.

While not a solid recommendation from personal experience in a Linn arm, I would "suggest" you give some consideration to the ZU version of the 103D. The problem with the basic cartridge, however, is very low output and the need for proper loading. If those are not issues that would stop you from buying the Zu, I'm familiar with the 103 in older Linn arms and would say this is worth considering. Even a basic Denon 103d is a pretty inexpensive cartridge that still contains a lot of magic in the right system.




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Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 16207
Registered: May-04
.

Just my opinion on the sonic character of a cartridge; buy something that is near to what you have in the digital source. Unless you enjoy moving between a Miata and an Odyssey Minivan, having two sources with mostly identical characteristics will make for easier system set up and fewer troubles getting accustomed to each source as you move between digital and analog.



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Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 2436
Registered: May-06
Dan,

Kudos to Stu about the placement. The lower to the floor the less the sway. As JV states above it is a table based upon isolation.

Here is how I set mine up, with JV's input as well.
Upload

From the LP12's feet down I have it sitting atop 4 wooden game pieces which is on an MDF shelf, sitting on 7 racket balls each on 2" plumbing end caps, which are on another MDF board sitting in a sand pit, a 30" round plastic flower pot drain bowl filled with ~70 lbs. of sand.

I replaced the DIN/RCA cable in mine twice, currently running with SLC Cables silver, and as with the power cord the dressing is critical to the balance of the table.

One major upgrade I did was to replace the motor with an Origin Live which I was glad to find on Audiogon for $400. It was the Ultra model with the upgraded transformer and DC 200 power supply. New it would have been about $1700. It arrived DOA but most fortunately JV was able to solder a loose connection inside the transformer.

Do not turn the table over when working on it unless you are prepared to add oil to the ball bearing.

The way I get to the underside is to stack up two piles of books on a counter top and then work at from the bottom, similar to a car on a hydraulic lift.

JV is right about my cartridges experiences. I ran through a few Adikts and although I had the worst luck with them in terms of accidental damage, they were affordable so I kept replacing them. 3 or 4 in all. Finally I decided that they might be bad karma for me so I moved on to Benz Micro MC20E2-H which was about $250. I think it has been replaced with a Benz MC Silver or Gold ($425 at the Needle Doctor.) The Benz Micro is much more revealing and airy than the Adikt IMHO. Get the high output if you go that route as the Adikt is a moving magnet cartridge not needing a phono-amp. Moving coil cartridges such as the Benz Micro generally have lower outputs than moving magnet cartridges.

It is near impossible to demo cartridges so do your homework before diving in.

My last upgrade was to a Benz Micro Glider S Phono Cartridge tested at 2.7mv. As JV stated it was not 3 times better than the first Benz but there are diminishing returns as you work your way up the price points of the different levels of gear. I will most likely buy whatever it's current equivalent at the time when it finally wears out. Perhaps another DIN/RCA upgrade is in the offing but I am not putting out the cash for a couple exorbitant upgrades that Linn has out there like the Keel or the EKOS SE. Mine has everything up to the Trampolin as it was new in 2006.

Here are a couple of links for you to peruse;

http://www.vinylrecordslive.co.uk/linn-sondek.html

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/archive/index.php/thread-8054.html

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=110

Best of luck with your Linn!

Cheers!
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1046
Registered: Dec-06
I can't thank you enough, Jan. That is a wealth of information and is extremely useful and easy to understand, and most of all key to choosing an appropriate cart. I'm going to try to get a sense of what are the better mechanical matches to the Ittok as far as carts go. I'll specifically make sure to consider the Denon, along with the Adikt and 10x5.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4437
Registered: May-05
If you're paying a bit more money than you thought you would/should with these carts, you may want to make stylus replacement cost part of your ultimate decision. I think the Adikt's stylus is easily replaceable by the user. Looking at Overture Audio's webpage, the Adikt is $510 and the replacement stylus is $265. Dynavector has a trade in your old cart for a new one policy, but I'm not sure how much they'll give you off the price for a new one. A dealer can help with that question.

I'm not saying this in case of accidental breakage (though that obviously can happen), I'm saying it because every stylus will ultimately wear out.

The Benz and Denon carts seem interesting. Haven't heard them personally though.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1047
Registered: Dec-06
Lots of discussion around the Denon cart online. It seems to be very highly regarded.

Stylus replacement is definitely something to consider, Stu. I didn't realize the Adikt was over $500. Here I was thinking it was under $400. The 10x5 is $450 while the 103D is $229 or $379 depending on which one you choose. I think I'll go with Jan's advice and try to determine which carts are the best matches with the arm (though JV did seem to acknowledge that most carts available today shouldn't be a big mismatch) and then go from there, hopefully narrowing down the results by price and stylus replacement cost and online reviews.

Michael, thanks for the tips. That's some platform you've made! I guess the idea is to provide lots of isolation to the platform from below, but the platform itself is very light and rigid as that is what the Linn sits on and reacts best to. I'll have to think what to do with mine, as I didn't expect the set up to be quite that elaborate. I appreciate your thoughts on the various carts you've used as well. Lots of stuff to think about, gotta go slow!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 16208
Registered: May-04
.

The vast majority of MM cartridges have user replaceable stylus asemblies. You slide the old stylus assembly out and slide the new assembly in. No adjustments will be required since you only need to make sure you've made a snug fit into the cartridge body with the new assembly. A few MM's and virtually all MC's will require a stylus re-tipping unless you change cartridges rather than re-tip. Most manufacturers willl re-tip a stylus as an exchnage where they send you a new cartridge after they receive your old unit. A few still re-tip your old cartridge and return it to you. There's no advantage to buying a cartridge with an exchange, you don't gain any new technology from most manufacturers unless they have a specific program under way. Either way, you'll be out of a cartridge for a few weeks if you buy a non-user replaceable stylus. A user replaceable stylus assembly has no down time.

Which brings up installation of the cartridge. Who can do this for you, Dan? Do you have a protractor for your arm? Have you checked the alignment of the Grado that was given to you in the existing arm? There's no great skill in aligning a cartridge though some practice does make the process go smoothly with little frustration. In general, cartridge alignment is a matter of having the patience, common sense, good eyesight and the tools to do the job well. If you have patience first, you can do a better job than most shops since they tend not to be as persnickety about your table as you would be. If you have no patience for small handwork, then let a shop do the job. A 10° tilt to the actual stylus tip away from proper alignment can easily be overlooked by most installers yet, when you consider the dimensions of a record groove, that tiny change can make a quite noticeable alteration in sound qualities. In particular the dynamics of the system and to some extent the frequency response of the system will suffer due to comb filtering. The imaging and soundstaging will never be as good as they might be. You can easily argue the room and system set up will have a larger effect on these qualities than will the cartridge alignment but you should start with easily adjusted components set up correctly to begin with. This is where a good tech earns their pay.

Also, as you are considering cartridges, you need to make sure the cartridge you decide on can be properly installed and aligned in the Linn arm. A very few cartridges have their stylus position relative to the mounting screws set in a manner that makes installation in certain arms all but impossible.

MW mentioned to me last night he had called attention to the leveling of the LP12 but I don't see that in his post. By all means, the LP must be absolutely level in all directions! A bubble level will be the simplest device to ensure proper set up here. Once the table is absolutely level, you can move on to checking set up of the subchassis. It should be equi-distant from the chassis at all points and, when you push down on the subchassis/platter, it should bounce directly up and down. If this isn't happening, then the table requires some further set up. This is accomplished by adjusting the under chassis springs and should be done by a competent tech.

Any idea how old the belt is? Belts require periodic replacement and a new belt will make a dramatic upgrade once the old belt has stretched out of shape. One tweak you can try is to clean the existing belt with alchohol applied to a cotton pad then treat the belt with talcum powder. Place a small amount of (non-perfumed) talc in a plastic baggie and drop the belt into the bag. Shake the bag and then shake the belt before you remove it from the baggie. You need only the slightest bit of talc on the belt and none on anything else. Replace the belt - most Linn belts require a slight twist to the flat belt to slightly alter its shape as it approaches and exits from the pulleys. Unless the belt is brand new and depending on the transparency of the system, this little tweak is typically a noticeable improvement in speed stability.


Finally for this post, MW forgot to mention his table exists in a second floor listening room. Moving his original table stand away from the one wall to the adjacent wall shifted the alignment of the support system relative to the floor joists. When he made the first move to the short wall with his system, his table would bounce the stylus across the disc surface as you approached it due to the flex of the floor joists. Another move helped remedy that situation and the 70lbs of sand along with the racquetball suspension http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/gingko2/minicloud.html has made sneeking up on the turntable unnecessary.

.
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1419
Registered: Oct-10
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This was my main "system" in '76. I was single and didn't spend much time at home, so the home system didn't get used much. This little radio was with me all the time though, especially at work. I never smoked or left my radio in direct sun light so it wasn't all yellowed like the one you see here.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1048
Registered: Dec-06
Thanks Jan. I plan to purchase a small bubble level, and all the tools required to change the cart. I will also try that alcohol and talc tweak. The belt looked fine to me when I saw it, though I've got no idea how old it actually is.

I've never changed a cart before, but there are a lot of good online sources. I've read a couple and it doesn't seem so bad. I plan to read some more about it and hopefully find a You Tube video or two, and also check the tonearm manual for Linn's tips. This seems like a really well done guide: http://www.audiophilia.com/features/cartridge_setup.htm

There's still a chance I might just let my dealer handle it the first time around, if I'm at all nervous.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 16209
Registered: May-04
.

Cartridge set up isn't difficult, but it can be scary. Cartridge set up is, more than anything else, tedious due to the very fine adjustments required to do the job well. I began setting up tables when tables were the primary source player but I still paused when I was going to install a $2500+ cartridge in a $3k arm. The old $19 Shures and AT's weren't a problem, you couldn't damage their cantilever or stylus unless you were just totally hamfisted. Today's cartridges even down into the $300 range might be using a cantilever much thinner than the finest gauge sewing needle. Exotic cantilever materials and unusual stylus cuts make it all too easy to destroy a stylus assembly with the slightest twitch of your hand. Boron and ruby cantilevers don't bend - they just disappear off into space somewhere and you're left with nothing more than the body of a now useless cartridge. Believe me when I tell you that will ruin your lunch.

What most set up instructions fail to adequately warn about is the unintended accident that suddenly puts a lump in your throat and a dent in your wallet. You're making some extremely fine manipulations if you want to get the set up "just right". A slip of the screwdriver or wrench can send the arm flying off into the main spindle of the platter if you're not careful.

A good deal of experience with cheaper cartridges and tables will teach you the importance of locking down the arm multiple times and using the cueing lever whenever the stylus need not be touching the protractor. If the cueing lever is "up", even if the arm gets away from you, it's less likely to end up hitting anything that would damage the stylus. Not many techs have that sort of experience today and the first time installer generally gets into the functions of the installation and tends to forget some of the basic safety measures which should be taken to protect your investment. Using the stylus guard whenever the stylus is not on the alignment protractor will save a cantilever. It's a hassle to constantly be placing the guard on the cartridge and removing it plus locking the arm down and unlocking it whenever you need to check alignments but it can save you money if you should only have one time when the arm slips away from you and goes skittering across the platter. Only tighten screws/bolts when the arm is locked down so you won't damage the arm bearings. Hold the headshell or the main bearings depending on what you're doing so the arm doesn't torque to one side when you're snugging up bolts and screws. Use the cueing lever whenever possible rather than setting the stylus on or pulling the arm off the protractor by hand. And, don't forget to take the belt off the table so the platter can be rotated easily without any rocking of the platter due to belt tension.

Place a not too important disc on the platter and the protractor on top of the disc so the angle of set up is correct for a typical LP. If you're using a cardboard protractor, use a needle to puncture the exact spot where the stylus should rest and then be very careful. I haven't set up a current Linn arm and don't know their protractors but a two position protractor will provide a superior set up to a one hole protractor. (There are actually several approved methods for cartridge alignment with each providing slightly different results across the LP's surface but I suspect Linn only has one protractor which they approve for their arms.) With the stylus resting in the pinhole the stylus is fixed in position. This makes the chances of a high quality set up more likely but it also increases the chances of something being damaged by a slight miscalculation. If anything moves at that point - usually either the arm, the platter or the protractor you risk snapping the stylus off and that's the end of that stylus assembly. In all of audio, there's hardly a more sickening feeling than to have snapped a stylus or cantilever and now you have to shuck out more cash for a replacement before you've even heard your new cartridge play a single disc. Dropping a screwdriver into the guts of a live amplifier comes close but that's not something most hobbyists should be doing in the first place.

Most protractors lack the really fine gradations that allow you to do an exceptional set up. If you have the ability to use some drafting tools to "enhance" the protractor, IMO, you'll get a better set up. That and adding a small magnifying glass to your tool kit to really check what's going on at the stylus tip.

Michael Fremer sells a DVD on table set up and also does clinics regarding tables at most of the audio shows he attends. You can find his DVD at the musicangle.com site I listed above. I've not seen it but it has received many compliments and MF is - for whatever reason beyond his owning a $150k table - considered the guru of turntables today. If you've never actually done a cartridge installation before, the DVD would probably be worth the money.

Finally, don't overtighten the screws/bolts when you're finishing the installation. Finger tight and then a half turn is usually sufficient. More than that and you risk damage to the cartridge or headshell. At the least, you will typically cause the cartridge body to torque in one direction or the other and the result will be you've moved the alignment of the cartridge and you'll need to begin all over again. "Adequately snug" is what you're aiming for.



.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1049
Registered: Dec-06
Well if I wasn't nervous before I am now! It all makes sense though. Thanks for mentioning Fremer's DVD, Jan. It should help immensely. I will purchase a copy for sure (I see it's available at the usual suspects - Amazon, Elusive Disc, Music Direct, Needle Doctor, etc).
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 16210
Registered: May-04
.

I just received - via the USPS at a cost that must be 1/10th what UPS would charge - an unsolicited catalog from MusicDirect. Geez! I musta bought something from them at sometime, eh? I mean Audio Advisor wouldn't have sold them my info, would they? Maybe I bought an LP from them ten years ago ...

Anyway, while paging through their slick little advertisement I noticed their selection of alignment protractors and saw the Avid piece can be ordered specifically for Linn arms; http://www.musicdirect.com/p-2081-avid-alignment-guage.aspx The alignment gradations are marked off in sufficiently fine degrees to provide less guess work and more correct set up. Maybe they'll give you a bulk discount if you order absolutely everything related to turntable set up all at one time.


.
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1424
Registered: Oct-10
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Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1425
Registered: Oct-10
I tried to get a pic of the cat on the receiver, but he jumped down and ran to the kitchen when he heard the can openner running!
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1426
Registered: Oct-10
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Next best thing!
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4438
Registered: May-05
Is your Denon a stereo receiver? I've heard them several times. Very good sound for a receiver. If I were in the market for one, it would be on my short list.

What speakers are you running?
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1431
Registered: Oct-10
Thanks Stu! This the DRA-397 stereo (2.1 channel). I would get high end of I could, but like you said, it sounds pretty good for a receiver. I am running Mirage Omni Sat OS3s through Monster 12 guage and a Mirage S8 sub. I use mostly Rockfish interconnects with Audio Quest for the blu-ray and sub.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1050
Registered: Dec-06
My Denon Blu-ray player (since sold) beat my Cambridge player on CD sound quality. That kind of surprised me, in part because the Cambridge was double the price. I thought my old Denon mini-system sounded pretty good too. Far as I can tell though, Denon's best stuff does not make it to our shores. The UK websites have a whole bunch of Denon gear that I simply never see here.

Jan, thanks again. The Avid alignment gauge looks like a no-brainer.
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1435
Registered: Oct-10
IMO, Denon is very under rated which is probably a good thing as it might be what keeps the price in check. We've all seen how expensive bose's over rated crap is. Basically, when you buy bose, you get a name!...attached to a very expensive paper weight.

Dan, have you tried contacting Denon to see about having their products shipped?

The Denon blu-ray beating the Cambridge could be a due to the Denon being better matched to your system than the Cambridge. Did you try these players in different systems? Also that's a reflection of what sounds good to you.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1051
Registered: Dec-06
I had the Cambridge through a few different speakers (same amp). Always had this hard and brittle quality to the sound as far as I was concerned. I'm sure their CD players are better though, as they are quite well regarded and considered pretty competitive at their price points.

No, I haven't tried to import a Denon. Nothing against Denon, I generally like the brand, but I don't want anything of theirs enough to go to that much trouble. I was just making the observation that their best audio products are not sold in North America.
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1436
Registered: Oct-10
I found an audio sharpness adjustment on my blu-ray player. I wonder if your Cambridge had such an adjustment.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1052
Registered: Dec-06
The Cambridge had a Pure Audio function that would turn off the video processing when playing a CD, to get the best audio quality. It helped. The Denon had a similar function, as does my Oppo. I think just about every universal player made by Denon on up has this. I'm not sure what audio sharpness is, but it could be something similar.
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1437
Registered: Oct-10
Audio sharpness is a variable control. This is a Sony that I think ran just over $100. I hoping to replace it soon. It doesn't have pure direct, pure audio, etc.
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 1438
Registered: Oct-10
http://www.miragespeakers.com/na-en/products/os-sat-overview/

I couldn't get a good pic of the speakers, so here is a link.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Canada

Post Number: 3550
Registered: Jun-07
Totems/Naim/Solid State Music Server = Booiinnnnngggg

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Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4824
Registered: Feb-07
Nice system Nick!

Those speakers look familiar :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Canada

Post Number: 3551
Registered: Jun-07
LOL I believe you were the original owner. Thanks for the deal bud. I am loving them. I even gave them a good polish before taking the pics for you. haha.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4825
Registered: Feb-07
I know they went to a good home.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Canada

Post Number: 3552
Registered: Jun-07
Today I am moving the DAC under the NAIM to get it off the MC.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4826
Registered: Feb-07
How come? The MC isn't throwing off a lot of heat, is it?
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Canada

Post Number: 3553
Registered: Jun-07
No, but believe it or not when I moved the DAC from its own shelf the sound changed a bit. The top of the MC is just aluminum or whatever and is thin and doesn't give the DAC a solid foundation. It might sound crazy but I noticed the difference instantly after the move. Hey what do you use for risers? Are those pucks?
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4827
Registered: Feb-07
Nope. They're milled aluminum, with felt pads.

I bought them here http://avrisers.com/default.aspx
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14638
Registered: Feb-05
Looks great, Nick. Those Sttafs look aweson!
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Canada

Post Number: 3554
Registered: Jun-07
Thanks Art- They sound wonderful. I love them with the Naim.

David - Wow, that site caused my stress levels to soar. lol. How much? No pricing on site that I could see. Just BUY NOOWWWWWW!!. Wow....
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4828
Registered: Feb-07
It just may be the ugliest website on the internet.... like, 1996 is calling and it wants it website back.

Try this page:

http://avrisers.com/order.aspx
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Canada

Post Number: 3555
Registered: Jun-07
wow great prices. Which ones do you recommend?lol

I am going to get some shiny silver ones.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4829
Registered: Feb-07
I got the silver shiny ones too. 15 bucks for a quad... can't go wrong.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1165
Registered: Dec-06
Throwin' up some pics!

Moved the system to the long wall in the room. It's finally got it's own wall and I think it sounds excellent here.

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Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1166
Registered: Dec-06
Now some pics for the very brief time I was running the Studio 20. What a gorgeous speaker!

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Will upload pics of the PMC's later...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 15203
Registered: Feb-05
Fuggit it.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 15205
Registered: Feb-05
Tried to post a pic and must have forgotten how...oh well. I'll link when when I get them going at AK.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4529
Registered: May-05
Please tell me you're not turning into Nuck, Art

Dan,

Which Naim CDP is/was that? Still there, or did you move on? I must have missed that one. I'd imagine the system sounds a good bit better where it is now vs. the other wall.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 15209
Registered: Feb-05
That was the first thing that came to my mind, Stu...lol!

Apparently I am because I can't remember for the life of me and I post pics on other websites every day.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1167
Registered: Dec-06
Art, maybe you forgot to resize? Anyways, linking isn't a bad idea, as other places support higher res pics.

Hey Stu, it's the CD5X. I picked it up earlier this year from my dealer who had a used one for sale at a price I couldn't resist. I think I want to try a used Nait 5i and connect them with DINs to properly hear what Naim can bring (may as well since I've got the CD5X). Maybe later this year. Then I think I'm headed for tubes in the long run. Rogue, used ARC, used Manley. Still have to research the possibilities. Matched to a high efficiency speaker.

I've tried a bunch of things this year. A summary...

The Naim sounds better than the Simaudio with the Anthem 225 and Unico P (which I not longer have, sold it with the Studio 20 to get the PMC's). It just had a righter balance. With the Exposure the sound was much too thin. The Simaudio sounds better with the Exposure. Overall so far, I like the Exposure/Simaudio sound best as it just feels more energetic, with great forward drive and a bottom end that really meshes well with the mids and highs, which suits what I usually listen to.

Naim/Unico P - had the most transparency and clarity
Naim/Anthem - was an alright match, but I don't think any strengths are really highlighted with this pairing
Simaudio/Exposure - more PRaT, simply more drive to the music and more excitement

I wouldn't say any of those wins running away, the differences were a little more subtle than it may sound from what I just wrote, but they were there.

I'm still getting used to the PMC's, but the clarity and transparency that the Unico brought seems to have returned. Inner detail as I think Art refers to it, where all the bits fit nicely together and you can hear, say, how two guitarists play off each other. Sounds marvelous with the Sim/Exposure combo. Right now my system looks as pictured below, Sim/Anthem/PMC. The Exposure sits powered off. I'm giving the Anthem one more shot, but again the balance is just a little off and it sounds the tiniest bit slower. Had I kept the Studio 20 I'd likely more strongly consider holding onto the 225. One annoying part of that amp though, is the volume control via the remote, it does not move in small increments (rather, a tap moves it up 3-4 steps). Very slight adjustments aren't possible via the remote. The amp is also hard to photograph.

Getting back to the PMC's...I love my Castle's, but the PMC's are great! Just a little less PRaT I'd say, but imaging, transparency, clarity, and tone have all improved. Guitar and those lower notes on the piano have a richness and intimacy that I find lacking a little in the Castle. The sound is presented just ahead of the plane of the speakers, while with the Castle it is just behind the plane...perhaps that has something to do with it. Plus they nicely match my LP12.

I may end up parting with the PMCs if I go the tube route. But there is a lot to consider before I do it...I might just save up and wait five years, that way I can keep the PMCs. Doesn't make sense to sell the Castles. They sound better than whatever I could get for them (around $500 probably).

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Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 15211
Registered: Feb-05
No I resized I simply forgot what comes after. Nice PMC's!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 15213
Registered: Feb-05
Okay...

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Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 15214
Registered: Feb-05
Horrible little low res pic but it's all I have for now!
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4916
Registered: Feb-07
"Please tell me you're not turning into Nuck, Art "

Hee hee.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4531
Registered: May-05
Speaking of which, where's Nuck?
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1171
Registered: Dec-06
Nice. Think one day I'd like a rack like Art has. Maybe a little lower in height, but where I could put the various components from left to right, rather than what I've got now (top to bottom).

What speaker cables are you running, Art? From this angle, the left speaker looks like it has some flat Nordost cable or something like that.

Nuck posts on CAM. Not sure why he doesn't tend to wander over hear anymore.

Likely going to sell the 225 soon, on consignment with a local dealer. They carry Zu and ProAc. I will hopefully get to listen to a nice tube based system running through one of those. Certainly not ready to buy, but hopefully I'll get a sense of what may be possible in such a system.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 15220
Registered: Feb-05
Speaker cable is Van den Hul D352.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Canada

Post Number: 3661
Registered: Jun-07
Nice Pics guys. Looking great.

Art- Seeing the Brio beside the 650C brings perspective to how compact it is. Hows that combo doing now that you have lived with it for a bit longer?

Dan- Nice gear. Love the CD5X. Question, does the tray on yours sound like it has sand/dirt in the gears when it opens and closes. I met up with a guy back in the summer that owns, I swear, every piece of Naim gear on the current market. haha. He is the guy that let me borrow the XS for a month. All of Naim cd players he had sounded like the tray grinds when it opens and closes. Just curious. Either way, they sound great. The CD5X used the Bur Brown DACS I believe which is what NAIM always used until the 5i(italic) where they switched to Wolfsons. This to many, explains why the latest Naim CD players not only sound better, but are much smoother and not as hot as their older stuff. However, the CD5X can handle their power base which would bring its performance higher than the current 5i which can not. Good pick up.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1172
Registered: Dec-06
When you slide the tray open/closed? Mine is close to dead silent, other than a very faint clicking noise when you begin to open it or almost finish closing it.

Once I sell the Anthem I will be in the market for a Nait 5i...don't plan to buy right away though, I'll wait a little and just listen to what I've got for now. Plenty of 5I's on the market at under $1K. Looks like it'll either be Sim/Exposure or Naim/Naim for my front end...should know by the fall.
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 2060
Registered: Oct-10
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Finally caught the little bugger on my system! He usually jumps off before I get the pic. He seems to thnk he' in trouble.I don't know why. never yelled at him for being on it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 2061
Registered: Oct-10
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New Account: Cats Receiveable

 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 15949
Registered: Feb-05
"Finally caught the little bugger on my system! He usually jumps off before I get the pic. He seems to thnk he' in trouble.I don't know why. never yelled at him for being on it."

Maybe he's smarter than you are.
 

Silver Member
Username: Nmytree

Post Number: 481
Registered: Aug-04
I thought this was a 'Systems Pics" thread? A whole lot of clucking from you hens, going on here! More pics, less clucking
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4969
Registered: Feb-07
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