Bye bye B&W's - hello Quads . . .
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1380 Registered: Nov-05 | I know I said I've been very happy with our audio kit of late and I was but . . . While the 602S3's have offered great sound, especially for their price, I've always felt they omitted a little something in the music. Also while their bass extension is very good, I've often thought a sub would sometime be beneficial for two channel listening, but for stereo only I've prefer using the speakers only. After having my eye on the Qaud L series for a while, I noticed on the website of a dealer about an hour's drive away that they were selling the range at heavilly reduced prices to make way for the new models so I drove there to have a listen. Telling the dealer of my set up, he connected a NAD 372 with an Audiolab CDP to cdp and a pair of 22L's and let me at it. After hearing other speakers like the Rega R5's, Soniques and so forth over time, these 22L's absolutely confirmed my thoughts about the B&W's. A sweeter and much more open mid range, outstanding high end detail and lower, but more controlled bass. The soundstage was wide and the imaging was with pinpoint accuracy. While these speakers were brand new and needed running in, they nevertheless had me totally enthralled with the music I had bought with me. I next tried the 12L's and they presented virtually the same picture though with less bass. To keep all things equal and although there wasn't one in stock to audtion, I ordered a centre speaker before I drove home to dissasemble the B&W's and set up the Quads. Listening last night - now some of you are going to love this - my dear wife said that we don't really need surround speakers as she felt she was totally enveloped in the music. She wasn't wrong. I can't believe the deal on these speakers - and the maple piano finish is the icing on the cake. Will report more when these Quads have more milage on them. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4903 Registered: Feb-05 | Not only are those beautiful speakers to look at, they sound wonderful, congrats to you MR. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7526 Registered: Dec-04 | Excellent, Rantz! The Partner listener is hard to come by! great speakers, head and shoulders above the rest, if they fit just right. Waiting for more impressions.. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4700 Registered: Dec-03 | M.R. Interesting. Thanks. Good luck! All I know about the new Quads is that they look very nice indeed. I think IAG did not just buy the name, but have maintained the quality and the ethos of the old independent Quad. BTW My better half now says the same as yours about surround sound... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7528 Registered: Dec-04 | Rantz, how 'bout a pic of the beauties? |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1381 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanx guys. These Quads really seem to do something for the music that the B&W's didn't - and I guess in real price terms such should be the case - the sounstage is much more open and expansive and while their are some similarities to the 602's especially in that they do require a bit of positioning experimentation to get things 'right', those similarities are more enhanced. It's hard to explain, I suppose it's like another dimension has been added to the music giving it a much cleaner, more realistic quality. They still need to open up even more - Quad suggests about 50hrs, though some say around 200 is probably more like it. Anyway they get better by the hour. The shop I purchased these was purely audio gear and it's a shame (or maybe I'm lucky) there no such places on the coast here. http://www.caxtonaudio.com.au/index.html I dared not listen to anything else during my visit. My wife has been very understanding and supportive to this point and I'm not about to push it. John, he had a pair of ESL 63's that looked brand new ($2999) as well as the new top of the range models, but you really need some room for those (not to mention a pile of money). Nuck, I'll get a photo up hopefully sometime during the next week after the center speaker arrives. BTW - even though I agreed (with limitations) with my wife about not needing surround speakers, I have since listened to some mc hi-res, and it still has that magic for me regardless - even with the odd center. However, pure stereo has never been better. Wonderful. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1892 Registered: Oct-04 | Rantz: I used to like you. . . (grin) Sigh. Respectful-like. . .LarryR |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 678 Registered: Mar-04 | Rantz, very nice. Please continue to post your impressions. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 423 Registered: May-06 | M.R. Which Quads did you get? (In case I missed that.) |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1893 Registered: Oct-04 | MR - as there are no Quad dealers anywhere around Swampville - I'd like your impressions of the 22L vs the speakers that John A has. Were you able to compare the sound of the two different configurations? I'm sure money is a key element here, but I'm just curious about your latest "babies." After doing a tad of Online research, it would seem that you have totally eclipsed my humble B&Ws - for not a heckuva lot more dough! Good for you! I, too, await your pics, sir! Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1382 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks Sem, we are really loving these Quads more and more as they run in. Michael - they are 22L's, 12L's and the L Center (which will arrive in a few days). Larry, I did not listen to the electrostats or anything else when I audtioned the Quads. If it hadn't been for the huge discount I would still be content living with the B&W's (now for sale). I had bookmarked (for future reference) the Quads as well as a few others (Rega, Spendors, B&W 700's etc) as there was many very positive comments about them on the net. Being rear ported and the need to be at least 35cm from the rear wall, I don't know if they'd suit your room. But if that wasn't a problem, then, imho, they surely are worth a listen - especially if you can get them at run-out prices. Having a slate floor (uneven over small areas) I followed Art's direction and I purchased a couple of wooden slabs (inch thick cutting boards) which I set with bluetack and a spirit level to place under the 22L's. I did this because I'm still moving and toeing to find the optimum position and adjusting the spikes all the time is a pain. Not to mention scratching the slate. The bottom line is, while they do have a great WAF and HAF (grin) they really do disappear and put me into the music. I am as happy a pig in mud with them. BTW - they come double boxed, wrapped in cloth and white gloves are supplied so as not to smudge the immaculate piano finish. Of course, dressing in a tux for the initial set up is prerequisite.  |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7574 Registered: Dec-04 | Rantz, I am totally in awe. Not in your abilities(never had a doubt), but that Art could suggest an idea involving a power tool! Dude, I am looking forward to your impressions as they roll in. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1894 Registered: Oct-04 | MR - sigh - looking for pics, sir! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4921 Registered: Feb-05 | I use fence post caps...no tools required and 1 per spike means they don't require as flat a floor as 1 bock would....Nuck, I have a couple of tools, now if only I could find them. Wow MR, I didn't know you were buying the whole surround setup with the Quads...that's awesome. |
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Bronze Member Username: DevelaraPost Number: 23 Registered: Dec-06 | Hi MR Bi wire ur Quad 22L for best result , The HF is refined and the bass has some difference when u bi wire the Quads , i dont know to explain ...check it out and post ur views dev. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1383 Registered: Nov-05 | The 22L's are bi-wired Dev. Photos coming Larry. More soon folks. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1384 Registered: Nov-05 | Dev, I notice you have the 22L's also - how long do you think it took for them to fully run in? |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1385 Registered: Nov-05 | You asked for them    |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7585 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks Mate. Excellent choice of finish for your room, I must say! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4933 Registered: Feb-05 | Wow, great room MR...oh and those speakers ain't bad either!!! |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1386 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks guys, the room may appear to be a little on the bright side, but it's helped by a thick wool rug and well padded sofas in front of the gear. However, the music these things make is really great. I guess if I had to describe the difference between the 22L's and the 602S3's apart from all round improvements across low to high frequencies, would be to imagine live music played in clear mountain air (the 22L's) and in a fog (the 602's). That's an exaggeration of course, but you get the point. These things make the music so open and spacious I'm now wondering if they'll get much better with more run in time. Having them positioned further into the room about 6-7 feet from the rear wall would be the best, unfortunatley RAF (room acceptance factor) won't allow this and neither would the wife, so there is a small degree of SQ sacrifice happening here, but this would apply to most speakers in our room anyway and the difference is not worth the bad aesthetics or the divorce (grin). I can't say how they compare to the Rega R5's or Spendor 8Se's as I have never heard both under the same conditions nor with the same components, but from memory I know they are in the same music hall and for a heck of a lot less thanks to the sale. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1895 Registered: Oct-04 | MR - all I can say is "yum!" So happy for y'all! Music in clear mountain air - man, I'd give a LOT of money to get that! (grin) Congrats!!!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: BetamaxCanada Post Number: 15 Registered: May-07 | Congrats on the Quads! I'm happy to hear there's such a difference, though as a 602 owner I'm somewhat miffed to learn that I'm really listening to music in a fog. LOL. Just kidding, I have plans to upgrade the 602's one fine day...but I just blew the budget on NAD gear, so speakers will have to wait. If I want to listen in clear mountain air, I'll use headphones... |
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Gold Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 1333 Registered: Apr-05 | Now that we are at praising everything MR, what is that stand you got? Looks awesome! |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1387 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks again guys. My comparison to the 602's is not meant to demean them. I have nothing but the highest opinion of them for speakers in their price group. We have loved our 602's but I saw this sale as an opportunity if the Quads auditioned as I'd hoped. Which they certainly did. Congrats on the NAD gear Frank, I'm sure you'll love it. Stof, I purchased the stand (if you mean the component rack) at a store using it for audio display storage. It was the last one (I don't know the brand) and I got it (after haggling) for less than half price. Now all that remains is to sell the B&W kit and recoup some money. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 679 Registered: Mar-04 |
Rantz, I'm sure you'll have no trouble selling your B&Ws. But to be safe don't mention anything about the fog.  |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1393 Registered: Nov-05 | I don't think selling them will be a problem either Sem - fog or no fog :-) The center speaker has not arrived yet. A phone call from the dealer said the one sent had a ding so he sent it back. should be here in the next day or two. These quads are really starting to open up and are making fabulous music - no other way to describe them. And while their bass is fast and punchy, they can also get way down low when called upon. Love the these speakers! The only complaint I have so far is that they don't do Diane Krall's "Only Trust Your heart" as well as all other music I've thrown at them. The bass sounds a tad boxy (or boomy) whereas with the 602's it was fine. It may be a speaker positioning problem that would be fixed by having them even further into the room, but that isn't going to happen. Or maybe more run-in is required (I hope) - but if sacrificing the sound on one CD is the only problem with the 22L's then I can certainly live with that. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 449 Registered: May-06 | M.R. ? How do you know what you are missing until you actual move the speakers into the room, dial them in, find the sweet spot and listen to some of your reference stuff? Just wondering, why not get the best the system can offer for your 2-channel, mark the placement, and put them back (WAF) when not doing dedicated 2-channel listening? |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1394 Registered: Nov-05 | Michael, there is no point in moving them further into the room. I did do this initally and, as I previously mentioned somewhere, it was certainly the best option. I really can't be bothered moving them off the timber slabs (which are blu-tacked and levelled to the floor) and having to adjust the spikes just for one CD. I'm just not that obsessive. For all other music I've played, these speakers are really wonderful and satisfying. Thinking more about the problem with that disc, I think perhaps it may also be how our room treats a particular frequency, but really, it's no biggie. |
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Bronze Member Username: MarkdavidPost Number: 19 Registered: Feb-07 | Hi M.R. I am planning to buy the Quad 22L later this month , how does it sound when you play classical music and rock , i am planning for Nad c162 pre and 272 power and for the Source i am planning either cambridge 540 marantz 4001 or NAD mark. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1395 Registered: Nov-05 | I believe I have solved the problem of that particular Krall CD. The antique writing cabinet (used for CD storage) near the speaker had a reasonable gap between it and the wall. I moved it as close to the wall as possible and the boxiness has been mostly subdued. Sometime in the near future I may rearrange the furniture (it will be to my wife's horror) so I can move the speakers further from the side walls (and corners) and maybe a tad further into the room. Maybe I am becoming a little obsessive :-) |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1396 Registered: Nov-05 | Mark, I have the C162/C272 combo with an Apollo CDP among other bits and pieces and I love the sound of these 22Ls. I only have a few classical cd's and many more of the rock genre, but mainly contemporary blues and jazz, all of which sound very good to my ears. I believe these Quads are a great all rounder, great smooth mids, detailed highs and though they can get down very low, they are tight and fast in the bass frequencies and don't have that big, flabby bass that some prefer with heavy rock. And the finish is something else. I think mine have some more running before they open up fully, but apart from what I discussed above, I am exremely happy with them. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5003 Registered: Feb-05 | Mark, the Marantz CD player would not be a good choice. One of the other 2 you mentioned would be better. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1398 Registered: Nov-05 | Mark, I agree with Art. However, the better the source (and other componentry and cables) the better your Quads will perform, so my suggestion is to extend your budget as much as possible for the better cdp's these brands have to offer if that's the limit of your choices. No more boxiness period. After moving the writing cabinet closer to the wall, I relented and moved the speakers about 5 inches further into the room and a few inches further out from the side wall (and corners) and the Krall cd (bass) problem has been completely eliminated. Not only that, everything I have played since sounds more natural. Sweet! Mark, the Quads need experimenting with position, but once you have it, they are truly magic. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5007 Registered: Feb-05 | Speaker placement is sooo important. Good to hear you are getting an even better result.. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 452 Registered: May-06 | M.R. It was easy for me to suggest moving your speakers as I have just experienced significant success with an overhaul of my system that started with moving my speakers 90 degrees, that is from a side wall to the wall where you enter the room. Can't tell you how happy Marsh was with that. My obsessive compulsive did not stop there however. More on that later. I am glad to see you are "compromising" your way to audio nirvana. Sweet that you found your CD cabinet to be a culprit. Not always easy to find. |
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Bronze Member Username: DevelaraPost Number: 24 Registered: Dec-06 | M.R congrats on your purchase , my Quad took a couple of days to break in , and after that it was really magic , as u said its better then B&w 602 in all ways, i first connected my Quads to Rotel power 980 power and pre combination , even though it was good with the rotel set up , Nad proved to be very different and warm and i think its the perfect match for the Quads , i heard that 21L is also as good as 22L but didnt get a chance to hear them and by the way how is ur 12L sounds for stereo dev. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1399 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks Art and Michael, Hey, we gotta keep the girls happy! The center speaker arrived today, tested some movies (sections) and hi-res surround. While the L center is about two thirds the size of the B&W LCR6 it's not smaller on sound (so far). Vocals in movies were clear and the hi-res surround was magic - some stuff is made for surround, but I won't get into that. All in all, the Quads get two big thumbs up from me. Now to get some dough back for the B&W's. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 681 Registered: Mar-04 | Hey MR, I've got a dvd recommendation for you to checkout with your new speakers. http://www.geocities.com/j_nada/carp/fog.html All best... Sem |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1401 Registered: Nov-05 | Develara, thanks. Yes, the Quads seem to go well with NAD. I only tried the 12L's at the audition and they were great with stereo: clean and precise, detailed with good punchy bass - similar to the 22L's but don't go as low. I'll certainly try them again in my system for some stereo listening. Sem, thanks old mate, I did see that re-release a few months back (here's where I admit to being a horror movie fan - if they're good) maybe I'll try it again soon. Saw Bandidas last night. Silly movie, but hey, it starred Selma (the body) Hayek and Penelope (almost the body) Cruz. The sound was quite dynamic and the center speaker did a good job. It seems to fit very well with the other Quads. |
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Bronze Member Username: BetamaxCanada Post Number: 16 Registered: May-07 | Bandidas. LOL. Silly movie indeed. I wanted to love it for obvious reasons but just couldn't... |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1404 Registered: Nov-05 | A follow up on the Quads. I doubt that I could be more satisfied with any other speaker (okay, okay, perhaps an overstatement). I don't really know how to describe the difference they make to my music except to say I'm enjoying it like never before. The Quads have settled in very nicely now and while there are some similarites to the 602S3's etc, they reveal so much more in all levels and the bass is so well controlled yet good and deep as I like it. I can follow every bass note and clearly define other instruments and where they are. The soundstage is wide, even outside the speakers, and very natural. These really make music. And what's even better, the Ebayers jumped on my beloved 602's and LCR600 so much so, that with the reduced prices of the Quads, the whole lot ended up costing me only a few hundred bucks. Talk about being over the moon. Okay, bad luck and trouble - buzz off! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7778 Registered: Dec-04 | Sinatra'fly me to the moon' The deal is outstanding, Bruce, and the sound seemd just righ for you. I am opening up the MA silver8i's this weekend, in an open and sibilant room. I wish I had your listening area. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1406 Registered: Nov-05 | Who's this "Bruce" ????? I read about your MA's - bet they're great! Everyone want's a better listening area than their own, including yours truly Cheers mate. Bill |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7780 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks Charlie. |
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New member Username: MilpaiPost Number: 9 Registered: Mar-06 | M.R., Congratulations on your new speakers. I saw this thread while casually checking on other people's experience on the Quads. I bought my Quads in July 2005 and have some VERY GOOD experience with them. I use them in a strictly 2-channel setting. First and foremost thing - I never wanted to audition the Quads when I decided to build a good system. I had auditioned Triangles, Dalis, B&W, AP, Paradigms, Totems, etc by that time. A dealer who carried Audio Physic had them on display and I decided to hear the Quad 12L. One listen to them and I was completely sold. (I used the Scheherazade and Bolero SACDs, besides others, for the audition.) But since I wanted a floor stander, I went ahead with the 21L. A word of caution. The Quads require more than 150 hours for "complete" break-in. But once they are broken-in, there is no stopping them. Put them up against any other speakers (bigger, meaner, badder) and they come on tops. Like you rightly said, they need "space" to show off their best. But I am doing fine in a 12X15X9 room. I listen at moderate levels. My integrated is a NAD C352 and I use a Marantz SA8260 as my source. I use Signal Cable Silver Resolution interconnects. They sounded much neutral to me than the Nordost Blue Heaven that my dealer lent me. The synergy is pretty good and I don't have the urge to upgrade any component. But there are some tweaks that can get you better sound from the system. You can replace the standard U-pins on the integrated with a good quality pre-amp jumpers. Also, the speaker wires make a hell lot of difference with Quads. Last week I upgraded from Nordost 4Flat bi-wires to Signal Cable Silver Resolution bi-wires. After just 18 hours of the wire break-in - the speakers are at a complete different level (higher, ofcourse). It is like going from recorded music to "live" music. SACDs sound so real that it is scary sometimes. All in all - your experience mimics mine. The biggest problem with these speakers is that - if you ever get the upgrade bug - it is going to prove VERY costly. Because - after owning these speakers - you will not be justified by any speaker in the USD $2000 to $8000 range. I mean - YES - they will sound better. But - is "that much" better worth the upgrade from USD $1300 to those amounts?? Probably "way better" would be worth it. And those speakers cost a lot lot more. It would be your call. In the meanwhile - enjoy your music. Milpai |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8324 Registered: Dec-04 | Great post, Mil. And geez, those speaks look good too! |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1490 Registered: Nov-05 | Milpai, Thanks for sharing your experience with the Quads. To me they just seem to keep getting better. I agree with the running in time if not a bit more. And yes, upgrading from these would really take some cash for sure. Enjoy the music. |
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New member Username: MilpaiPost Number: 10 Registered: Mar-06 | Thanks Nuck/M.R. Most of my free time now-a-days is spent with listening to music or photography. The Quads don't cease to amaze me - even after 2 years The Grado headphones that I purchased are simply lying idle in the attic. I use them rarely. The Quads give them no chance at all!! I am glad to know that there are so many more people enjoying their Quads. |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 179 Registered: Jul-07 | Beautiful. I hate it when they use better speakers than mine for the back set So you had that Richter Krakatoa subwoofer before with the B&W right. Do you "need" it now for 2 channel music on the 22L? I am curious because (well before home theater) I always thought of a sub as part of a 3 part monitor system and not needed on a big floor stander? Not that my friends have good hifi to experience. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1497 Registered: Nov-05 | Kevin, no - I only use the sub for surround movies and hi-res surround music. For straight stereo the 22L's have lovely controlled bass. They can reach way down when needed. |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 180 Registered: Jul-07 | Looking forward to shopping the floorstanders next year. For now it will be the Quad11L w/sub (yet to be purchased). To be honest, I have an unexplained preference for such a speaker over the monitor/sub type. I have not done A/B but like a prejudice simply feel it is better. I have gone with the 3 way simply because of portability. You guys know how to live Down Under! |
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