Advice needed for main speakers: Monitor Audio, Paradigm, etc. (long, sorry)

 

New member
Username: Vasia

Post Number: 1
Registered: May-04
Hi guys,
I am looking for some comments regarding my choice of main speakers. Over the last few weaks I have auditioned a bunch of speakers that I selected based on the info I got on the forums/local availability. Those included Paradigm Studio 60 V3, B&W 603 and 604, Rocket RS750, Monitor Audio S6, Triangle Zerius, Boston Acoustics. I am hoping to listen to Axiom's M60 tomorrow, so I'll add impressions. Couple of extra points, the room will be on the medium/small side 13X18 and I'll hook the speakers to Marantz SR8300. I am primarily interested in music and much less HT. I am looking for the speakers in the up to 1200$ range.
Thus far, the clear winners were Paradigm Studio 60s driven by Rotel RSX-1056 and Monitor S6 driven by NAD S320 integrated amp.
RS750 sounded excellent as well (thanks Ron!), but I feel that they really shine when played loud, which would rarely be an option for me. In addition, I would prefer somewhat brighter speakers.
Studio 60s sounded just about right. Nice sound from bass to high notes, good soundstage, about as bright as I would like, etc.
Monitor S6s struck me with the clarity and detail, which is expected. However, they sounded a bit too bright. However, the amp was not thebest and I was only 6 feet from the speakers.
Triangles sounded nice, but way too bright.
Here are my questions:
1) How would the sound change when Moitor's or Paradigm's get hooked up to Marantz? Based on warmer sound of Marantz, Monitors presumably would sound really great (less bright).
2) How are S8 different from S6? The dealer said S8 have much more bass, is that true?
3) Any general comments on Monitor S8 versus Studio 60 (version 3)?
4) Any other speakers (new or used) in this range similar, but better sounding?
5) I would not be able to place speakers further than 1 foot from the wall, which may be a problem with rear ported S8. I can plug ports, but I am not sure what effect that would have on sound or how this placement should affect my choice.

Thanks for any comments. Unfortunately, I absolutely would not be able to compare speakers side-by-side, listen to S8 before buying (dealer can only special order them) and test anything at home (I am moving in a month), so comments from the people with hand-on experience are extremely valuable for me.
 

New member
Username: Vasia

Post Number: 2
Registered: May-04
Hi,
After auditioning Axiom M60, I am currently gearing towards S8. Please comment on the choice of S8 versus S6 and S8 versus Paradigm Studio 60. I really liked extra clarity of S6/S8 and I realized that I much prefer bigger speakers with lower bass extension rather than smaller speakers plus sub.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bigfan

Post Number: 34
Registered: Jan-04
i have been going thru a very similar process. yesterday i listened to MA s6/s8 at one store and paradigm studio 60s at another. my verdict: i'm going w/the s8's.

vs studio 60s: better bass is the biggest difference. studio 60s are great, good clarity and soundstage. but to my ear, they were a bit too mellow and laid back. i preferred the more aggressive sounding MAs. i did not find them at all bright. i listen to rock and maybe that affects my opinion. other posters have said the studios are great w/classical.

vs s6: big $ difference, so i went in wanting to prefer the s6. but side by side, i feel the s8s were much better. not more bass, but clearer, less muddy bass. i don't know many audiophileisms to use, but to my ear, they just sounded more lifelike and pleasing to my ears than the s6s. added to the cost of the remaining spkrs and the receiver, i convinced myself that the extra $500 is a small % of the total and well worth it for notably better sound.

fyi i listened to the ma's w/an nad stereo receiver, which was the closest match the dealer had to my planned recvr purchase, the nad 773.

my comments are slightly exaggerated to clarify the diffs. in spkrs. all 3 models were great and i don't think you can go wrong.
 

New member
Username: Vasia

Post Number: 3
Registered: May-04
Bigfan,
Thanks a lot for your comments. Thinking about it more, I fully agree with your take. I think my perception of Silver series being bright might have been cuased by the positioning of the speakers too close to the listener and maybe underpowered amp. I suspect that under better conditions Silver series will sound just right. I am going to check it ASAP.
Thanks.
 

Unregistered guest
Bigfan, you want lifelike, listen to a pair of Green Mountain Audio Europa's. Knock you off your feet kinda lifelike. Less $$$ than the Paradigm's too.
 

shaneotool
Unregistered guest
Don't worry about having to place the S8's close to the back wall, they come with plugs for the ports. I have both ports pluged and prefer the sound this way. Vocals are not as chesty and the bas seems a bit tighter. I had a pair of Energy C6's before these, and those were way brighter. The S8's stength seems to be a great midrange.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bigfan

Post Number: 38
Registered: Jan-04
shaneotool,
what do you use for surrounds w/the s8's? no dealers near me have sfx's on display so i can't audition them. i'm trying to decide between s1, s2, or sfx. my listening is probably 60/40 music/movies, BUT i would guess that my use of surround speakers will be predominantly movies, since my music is all 2 channel for now, and i don't know whether i'll like DPL2, and i think it will take me a while to buy many sacd/dvd-audio discs (i am just now converting from a 2 channel old system to a home theater). that said, i still don't want my surrounds to wimp out with music.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Robertinchico

Post Number: 77
Registered: Apr-04
I would recommend Re-auditioning the Silver series at another dealer with different equipment before finalizing on MA's. The "ringy" somewhat unnatural metal-matrix-mix driver sound of the Silvers may not prove to your liking over time. Make certain you feel there is adequate bass output (quality, extension) vis-a-vis the rather tame midrange before you lay down cash for the spendy Silvers. I found the Silvers to be far less sonically accomplished than the more expensive Golds, making the Silvers uncompetitive price-wise, and the Golds suitable for comfortable budgets.
 

New member
Username: Vasia

Post Number: 7
Registered: May-04
I actually have re-auditioned Silvers twice. In the first place, S6 were matched with underpowered NAD amp, they were located too close to the listener and maybe not burnt in properly. Overall, they sounded clear, but harsh.
At the second place, they were matched with Integra receiver (pretty bright by most accounts) and sounded just right to my ears.I guess they might get fatiguing, but I am factoring in that:
1) The room will have wall to wall carpet,
2) I'll listen through rather laid-back Marantz,
3) I probably would not listen more than 1-2 hr at a time,
4) I'll often listen at the lower volume.
Under these circumstances a bit more smooth, laid-back set up to me just feels a bit dull, but maybe I'll regret it in the long run.

Do any other Monitor Audio Silver owners have issues with fatigue?

Golds are really out of my price range. ANy other similar priced speakers I should listen to?
 

Unregistered guest
if you are affraid of fatigue, listen them with a good power conditioner.

I now use a Monster Power HTPS-7000 Signature and it is amazing. All the brigthness is gone. I Have Martin Logan Scnenario, they were sounding really too bright for my taste but with the Monster, they now sound perfect. Better bass, a big improvement in depth.

I'm sure that many many power conditionner do somthing very similar or better. Try and you will be surprised.

But if you can't try them with power conditionner, listen to them many times, and take the best sounding speakers for you ears. I am sure you will regret a speaker that is too bright.
 

laypais
Unregistered guest
and maybe you could bring your Marantz to the store.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Robertinchico

Post Number: 83
Registered: Apr-04
Vasia - your ears may well not care for the MA sound that you describe as "fatiguing", or dry -- given the ceramic/metal matrix (basically aluminum) driver material. Super stiff driver materiel can sound quite dry. During my auditioning of the MA6, &8 SILVER, I popped the tweeter mesh guard off and was taken aback at how hissy that tweeter can be. The sonic profile of the Silver line differs from model to model and for the money it's not the most refined sound. It is probably not an underpowered NAD amp, that further neutralized your opinion, as NAD's (even small ones) can drive large loads quite well.
 

New member
Username: Vasia

Post Number: 9
Registered: May-04
Chicobroker and Laypais,
Thanks for the suggestions!

To Chicobroker:
What would be a good match for the Marantz receiver in the 100-1200$ range, then?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Robertinchico

Post Number: 86
Registered: Apr-04
Any speaker you like, except those whose typical impedance profile consistently drops to sub 4 ohms, can be driven by a Marantz receiver. In my case, I'm re-entering the stereo scene AFTER parting/selling with some expensive gear from the late 90's. Right now, I'm using some Paradigm Focus (a deal for $300), I'm going to upgrade to Monitor 5's this summer THEN in the next year-ish, get some more speakers in the 2K - 3K range and upgrade my NAD to newer more powerful NAD. MAybe start with something suitable and affordable, then carefully audition some slightly more expensive speakers as time goes on.
 

New member
Username: Knightshade

Taunton, Somerset England

Post Number: 1
Registered: May-04
Hi Vasia,
Just seen your post and I'm completly new to this forum. But I have to reply!
I am selling my S6's (Not because they are a bad speaker but just because I've finally found something better PMC/Bryston OB1 - £2600 And believe me they're better!)
As you can see I've had to spend an almost silly amount of money to get something appreciably better.
I can do nothing but sing the praises of the little S6's, especially if you're in a smaller room. I originally had them rigged up to A Rega Planet and Mira Amp and like you I found they sounded a bit harsh. My room is a bit succeptable to "Bass-Boom" (Wood floors, brick walls, etc)so I had to have the Ports bunged. However when I changed my system to a much more powerful one the S6's just came alive! They were (until recently) attached to Exposure 3010 CD (Chord DAC64) and 3010 integrated and 2 3010 Power Amps. The Bass tightened and the Mid range became totaly transparent. The first thing I did was remove the port bungs and increase the volume. These speakers are real giant killers even compared to the rest of the Monitor audio range (I listened to the G2's) but I couldn't justify the extra £900 for the slight improvement in sound quality. I also auditioned JMLab, KEF, Rega and B&W. I found them all very dissapointing compared to the S6's even to the point of prefering the sound of the S6's to speakers more than twice the price! These are speakers that can grow with your system.
I had to experiment to get the just right and found about 1' away from the rear walls was just right. Keep them well away from corners! Also (Sounds sad I know) you could hang some wall drapes directly behind the speakers - this softens the bass and cleans it up slightly.
The only thing I can say is the better your sytem the more you'll get from these speakers. I haven't heard a speaker that sounds so good with such a varied array of equipment.

Other suggestions - On saying all that you may want to listen to the PMC FB1 (Front Vented Floor stander - If you can they are really worth a listen
 

New member
Username: Vasia

Post Number: 10
Registered: May-04
Hi,
Thank you for the comments. I gues with MA speakers you either love them or not. I got a lot of really positive comments about Monitor's. I think I'll try auditioning them again, but I doubt it would change my mind too much.
Mark:
You mention JMLab and KEF speakers. Why did not you like them compared to MA's? I have a dealer in the area and I was considering auditioning them at some point.

 

New member
Username: Knightshade

Taunton, Somerset England

Post Number: 3
Registered: May-04
Vasia,
I didn't not like the JMLab speakers they are very nice and well worth listening to. However they are dearer than the (dare I say it) MA equivilent. They tend to be a little brighter than the MA's and the bass a little less tight. To get a speaker that sounded as nice I would have to go for the Cobalt series which is a fair bit pricier than the MA's. I also didn't think they matched my equipment very well. As for KEF, I didn't like the sound! Simple as that. They are a very different sounding speaker to the MA's. To my ear it sounded like I was listening to music through cotton wool!
It might be worth contacting the manufacturers of your Amps and Cd player to find out what speakers they used. Having the so called 'best' speakers doesn't mean they'll sound good with your equipment.
It also depends on what you like to listen to. If you like Classical you'll find the JMLAB's or MA's hard to beat for the money. Jazz sounds better on the JmLab's. I think overall the MA's have the edge, but that's just me.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Vasia

Post Number: 11
Registered: May-04
Mark,
Thanks a lot for the answer!
 

Unregistered guest
Let me try this one last time guys. Green Mountain Audio Europa's, at $880.00/pair will sound better in everyway thats musical than ANY speaker aforementioned in this thread. Do yourselves a HUGE favor and listen to them before you waste money on a lesser speaker. Try going to www.audiogon.com This is the truly high end audio web site of the net. On the right side of the page, click "discussion forums" then, in the search bar, type in "europa" to see what others are saying about these amazing speakers. You'll see many comparisons to Paradigm, Sonus Faber, Magnaplaner, Von Scweikert, B&W, and all the others. I've compared them to the $90,000 Infinity IRS and it was no contest. GMA won hands down. Just listen to them...isn't great sound why we're all here?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Vasia

Post Number: 13
Registered: May-04
Hi mauimusicman,
I hear you, but the problem is, its almost impossible to listen to them. GMA Europa's certainly sound intriguing and the people using them seem more like a cult, than a good of audiophiles. However, I do not beleive that there could be one speaker that would be "better" than others for everyone, its just too individual. For example, I have listened to both Axiom M60 and Rocket RS750, which is also tremendously praised by the owners, and neither one was as fitting my preferences as MA Silver's. So, even though GMA speakers seem like a very intriguing choice, its just not a very practical one.
 

New member
Username: Cornelius

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jun-04
I gotta go with Mauiman on this one. With your budget you can start dabbling with some REAL approaches to speaker design. If you're going for the usual cone 'n dome variety, atleast treat yourself to the open, MUSICAL sound of something with a simple 1st order design like Europas, Meadowlarks, Sequerras...

Or, try Magnepan MMGs or Ohm Microwalshes, money back guarantee. I know Maui doesn't dig these styles, but I think it's still better than the usual mainstream models.
 

Unregistered guest
Vasia, whats impratical about Europa's? They cost less than Paradigm and blow them away. Simple as that. Tell you what, listen to the Paradigm Reference Studio 100's ok? Then check out this link to a review of the predessor of the Europa's, the Contiuum .5. Then note that the Europa is better in EVERYWAY than the .5's. There is a comment about the sound of the GMA VS the Paradigm in the review. You may have waited too long though as i'm told the Europa's are going up in price. Whats that old saying? You snooze you lose? Used pair on Audiogon for $800.00
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/frank05.htm
 

Anonymous
 
why would you buy a used pair for $800 when a new pair is $880? who cares if they are broken in, why would you take the chance to save $80?
 

Unregistered guest
Neil, oh well........can't say we didn't try, yeah? Someday, when they are ready, they'll listen to some phase/time coherant speakers. Then they will be preaching like we are now....to a choir that don't wanna hear. Frustrating, no? One more thing: Seems used GMA speakers don't stay on the market long. Great products generally don't. Wanted to pick up a pair for one of my co-workers, but they were sold the next day. Good luck in your speaker search guys.
 

Unregistered guest
Vasia, well........the MA silver M8's appear to be a 4th order butterworth MTM configuration. Comparing that to the GMA Europa with a 1st order x-over you would hear voices sounding much much more lifelike; instruments so dead on in pitch and timbre that you would swear the music is live; the ability to play any recording you like, as opposed to just the audiophile approved ones; and finally, the ability to "connect" with many many recordings that you just won't "connect" with using the MA's. I know, hard to believe. Just listen to a pair.....thats where the proof is. It's your money, spend it as you wish. Took me 35 years to finally figure it out. You have time hehehe. Someday though, you'll look back and say "maui told me that years ago" It's all just a fun, expensive musical trip.
 

Anonymous
 
Maui..give it a rest. We know you love GMA but stop ramming them down everyone's throat like you do over at asylum.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Stone

West CoastUSA

Post Number: 47
Registered: Dec-03
someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning
 

Unregistered guest
Sure seems that way.
 

New member
Username: Cornelius

Post Number: 6
Registered: Jun-04
There's nothing wrong sharing one's findings. A lucky few see the light, while most will wallow in mass produced mediocrity.

 

New member
Username: Cornelius

Post Number: 7
Registered: Jun-04
There's nothing wrong sharing one's findings. A lucky few see the light, while most will wallow in mass produced mediocrity.

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