Matching Sub with Speakers

Scot New member Username: Scot_m Post Number: 9 Registered: Jun-06	Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 08:57 GMT I have Paradigm Cinema 110 speakers... http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteParadigmProduct/ParadigmModels/Cinema/Cinema _Specs.html For a sub, I'm considering the HSU VTF-3MK 2 and the Paradigm pw-2200. My concern is about the crossover range. The sub that comes packaged with my Cinema 110 speakers has a crossover range of 50-150 hz. The pw-2200 also has a range of 50-150 hz. The HSU has a range of 30-90 hz. HSU emailed the following to me... "I would start out by leaving the crossover on the sub to 'out' and use the one in the Onkyo (703 receiver). With those speakers, 100 Hz crossover should be about right." I'm pretty ignorant about this stuff. What numbers do you look at to tell if a sub will compliment your speakers? Does the email from HSU seem reasonable? It sounds to me like a band-aid/work around approach to get the HSU to work with my speakers. As a result, I'm leaning toward the pw-2200. Am I right or wrong? Thanks.
Peter Galbraith Gold Member Username: Petergalbraith Rimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1686 Registered: Feb-04	Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 16:01 GMT Dr Hsu is on the right track. I would also use the crossover internal to the receiver if it's crossover frequency is 100 Hz. You don't want to play frequencies above 100 Hz with your sub anyway because you be be able to tell that they come from the sub, whereas the very low frequecies' origins disappear. If it helps, I have a Hsu STF-3 and I'm more than satisfied with it, both for movies and music, although I cross into it lower than 100 Hz for music (used to be 80 Hz, and now it's 40 Hz) You could also tell us about the room size, for music or movies, what loudness level do you like, etc. Perhaps you'd get sub recommendations as well then.
Scot New member Username: Scot_m Post Number: 10 Registered: Jun-06	Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 19:02 GMT Thanks for the response. My room is a big rectangle 15(W)x8.5(H)x25(L). TV is on the west wall and couch sits in the middle of the rectangle. The east 1/3 of the room (behind the couch) is kitchen. Mostly movies and want a sub that extends below 20 hz. This is my first sub, but I don't want to outgrow it any time soon. Around a $1,000 is my limit. The HSU and PW-2200 are almost the same size and are as big as I can go (wife). I was really interested in SVS, but they are just too big. So, as far as cross over range and my speakers are concerned, you don't see any advantage or disadvantage between the HSU VTF-3MK 2 and the Paradigm pw-2200? Thanks.
Peter Galbraith Gold Member Username: Petergalbraith Rimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1694 Registered: Feb-04	Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 20:35 GMT The PW-2200 has a good reputation, but I'm biaised by a very bad demo I was gievn at a local store (now out of business). I wasn't impressed at all. The salesman made the tiny PDR-10 sound better. Based on recommendations from this forum, I bought a Hsu STF-3 from the Canadian distributor, without an audition first. I'm not disappointed at all. It shoke the house when the girl taps the aquarium on "Finding Memo" which was recently out on DVD when I got the sub. It put the kick into kick-drums on the "Hell Freezes Over" Eagles concert DVD. I think the 25 Hz design choice for this sub works out very well. I can't see you going wrong with the VTF-3. I think it's a much better sub than the PW-2200.
Nuck Gold Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 3571 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 02:29 GMT http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteReferenceProduct/RModels/Servo/ServoSpecs.ht ml
Scot Bronze Member Username: Scot_m Post Number: 12 Registered: Jun-06	Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 07:39 GMT Thanks Peter and Nuck. I'll most likely get the HSU and at least take advantage of their home trial period. I'm sure I'll love it. I wish that Servo-15 was in my budget - looks sweet. Maybe someday. BTW - The HSU is down firing and the Paradigm is front firing. Which configuration is generally better? How do they differ in terms of sound and effect? Thanks again.
Peter Galbraith Gold Member Username: Petergalbraith Rimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1701 Registered: Feb-04	Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 12:50 GMT I don't think it matters all that much. Down-firing leads to more spots where you can place it, I think.
Edster922 Gold Member Username: Edster922 Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4353 Registered: Mar-05	Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 15:41 GMT I've been told downfiring is somewhat easier to place correctly, and front firing reduces neighbor complaints if you're living above someone in an apartment. Another speculative theory I've heard is that downfiring is better for HT and front is better for music.
Nuck Gold Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 3587 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 20:18 GMT The downfiring is usually more evenly displaced, especially on hard bases(like carpeted cement floors). The open firing is more easily placed for music and specifics. Although Art will call me on it, consider that we may be dealing with less than ideal speakers.
Scot Bronze Member Username: Scot_m Post Number: 13 Registered: Jun-06	Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 23:10 GMT I don't know if this changes much, but I'm exchanging my cinema 110s for 220s today. http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteParadigmProduct/ParadigmModels/Cinema/Cinema _Specs.html Nuck - regarding your statement... "Although Art will call me on it, consider that we may be dealing with less than ideal speakers." I don't know if you were being sarcastic or serious, but can you elaborate? I ask because I spoke with an out of area paradigm salesman today who said something similar. He doesn't think either of the 2 subs I mentioned in this thread would sound good with the cinema 110s or 220s. He said for small speakers like this, I would need a "tighter" sub. He recommended paradigm Ultracube 10 ($799) http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteParadigmProduct/ParadigmModels/UltraCube10/U ltraCube10_Specs.htm or the paradigm Seismic series 10 ($1400, and too spendy for me) http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/SiteReferenceProduct/RModels/SeismicSeries/Seismi cSpecs.html Is that what you were driving at - or do you just dislike Paradigm ? Do you agree with the salesman?
Nuck Gold Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 3599 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 23:53 GMT Nothing was inferred or intended, Scot. Your choices are valid ones, but maybe limited to the brand. For super high quality ,REL and a few others would be my choice with your money. For normal working stiffs like me, and better folks like yourself, I really cannot see a box better than Hsu. They sell a TON of em' for a reason.
Gavin Gold Member Username: Gavincumm New York USA Post Number: 1254 Registered: Feb-05	Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 16:38 GMT take a look at the MartinLogan Dynamo as well. The bass is very tight, and will blend quite well with your Paradigms. At $600, it should be within your budget. Also, a configuration of either front or downward firing can be chosen by the user. I have been quite impressed by this sub, and feel that ML has a winner on its hands.
Scot Bronze Member Username: Scot_m Post Number: 15 Registered: Jun-06	Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 00:27 GMT Thanks for the info guys - I'll check out the MartinLogan and REL. That's a pretty cool option from MartinLogan (down or front firing). I'm probably going to try the HSU out first because of their raves, price, and home trial period. BTW - I went with the Cinema 330s. I'm so passed my budget. I can see how all this could lead to a divorce!

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