Alegria Audio Emmas - dakulis' first take
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 820 Registered: May-05 | Well, I have spent some time with the Emmas and I wanted to provide a fairly brief review with more to follow. Tim provided me the Lings early on in his venture as a speaker manufacturer. The Ling was like a lovely, single flower. She had certain talents that made her stand out in some areas and others that limited her. All in all, I thought Tim had made a valient effort and, at the price point, I could have easily lived with the Lings in a HT setting and enjoyed them in 2 channel format to listen to jazz, country and most vocals. Now, Emma is a completely different approach and person. Where Ling was a bit shy and demure, Emma has a huge voice. She can take over, dominate and capture a room while hardly making an effort. But, I must regress a bit here first. I introduced Emma to my Fisher tube amp, Arcam CDP and they all became fast friends. My 2 channel system is simple and yet, Emma moved right in, made herself at home and made an immediate impact. It didn't matter whether I introduced her to Elvis, Linda Eder, Norah Jones, Diana Krall, Holst's "The Planets", Stravinsky's "Firebird Suite", or some good rock/fold like Harry Chapin or Gordon Lightfoot, Emma always let them tell their story and play their music while inviting me into the group and surrounding me with sound. Often I wondered, how could such a petite, attractive thing put out such strong bass, pure highs and seductive mids. Emma always tried to put you in the music while not taking over the music. She was there but she wasn't there. Several people have pointed out her ability to play "musical blackness" and frankly I was at a loss at to what the heck they were talking about but Emma explained it. In one of my Elvis recordings, there a couple of spots where the music resonates from a single guitar strike or a bongo strike. That single note hangs in time gradually lessening until the sound of silence takes over. It's then you recognize, that's real, Emma makes it sound like it sounds live and in person. Yet, she doesn't jump up and down and beg to be fussed over for her effort, she just blends into it all and let's you enjoy it. Now, Emma did have a few gripes with me. She let me know when I gave her less than stellar CDs to work with. Yes, bad recordings sounded bad. In fact, I think Emma made some bad recordings sound worse than they were because you could immediately tell that the problem was the CD and not Emma. She simply bared the badness but always politely, she never pointed and stared at how bad they were but she begged you to replace them quickly so everyone could get back to enjoying themselves. Was Emma perfect through her first 8-10 hours of listening, "no." There were a couple of good recordings that I liked better with my vintage Altecs but, even with these recordings, Emma provided a good rendition of the music. Emma gave me most of what was there and I wanted more, I had to recognize that she was giving her all and her limitations were understandable and these limitations were reflected in her price, size and design. However, comnplaining that Emma didn't give you everything you wanted and needed is like complaining that your candy bar didn't taste like chocolate mousse. In reality, the problem isn't with Emma but with your unrealistic expectations, as expressed even before you considered your purchase. The more I get to know Emma, the more I am enjoy her. She has not faced everything I can throw at her yet and I am still experimenting with her placement and set-up. But, she has been very little trouble thus far and she has been polite to a "T" while waiting anxiously for our next session. All in all, Tim has done an incredible job in bringing such an all around performer out at such an incredibly reasonable price. Can you get better sound, "yes" but unlikely at this price point. The Altecs that I'm comparing her to were $479 a piece in 1977, they're full range floorstanders and they would cost thousands of dollars in today's market. Yet, in most recordings, Emma gives me everything the Altecs do. All I can say is "WOW, get a load of that gal." Take her home, introduce her to your parents, by the end of the evening, they'll want her to stay. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7607 Registered: May-04 | Very nice, Dak. Tell Emma McIntosh misses her. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 290 Registered: Nov-05 | Jan, why not just get Mac to give her a call? You guys got serious problems. :-) |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 821 Registered: May-05 | Jan and MR, I'm pretty sure that my Fisher can't take Jan's MacIntosh but it might be willing to try with Emmas at stake. Then again, I think Tim has enough to go around. Is there a Mann Act violation in the offing here? MR, Jan and I have serious problems? You're the guy suggesting that Jan have his amp call a couple of speakers that happen to be staying at my house. LOL Dave |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 291 Registered: Nov-05 | This is what happens when you give speakers girlie names - some guys get carried away. Twas a good review Dave, shame there are none over here to audition. Dave, Tim, Jan etc. I've been hearing great things about these Chinese made Arumm Cantos speakers also with ribbon tweeters, especially the Leisure 2SEMk11's (I believe around $2600AU). http://www.finallink.com.au/aurum.html |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 777 Registered: Dec-03 |  |
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Bronze Member Username: Mnr3Post Number: 27 Registered: Jan-06 | Tim and company, what would be the minimal amp power for reasonable sound levels with emma?-in, say, a 10x20 room? |
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Vanessa Del Rio Unregistered guest | JAN! You told me you were over Emma! Lying sack of #%@*! |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 778 Registered: Dec-03 | I don't know off hand what Dave's Fisher is pushing but my "little" push-pull is rated at 35w/ch. Jan's Mac is probably pretty beefy. It depends a lot on the amp design itself as well. If we're talking solid state you may want 50w/ch or better. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 822 Registered: May-05 | Tim and MNR3, My Fisher is 25 wpc approximately but they are tubes watts, which everyone knows are "Superman" watts. OK, I know a watt is a watt is a watt but don't tell the Fisher that. Dave |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2786 Registered: Feb-05 | Good job David. I enjoyed your write up. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7610 Registered: May-04 | "You're the guy suggesting that Jan have his amp call a couple of speakers that happen to be staying at my house." Snnnnk, snnnnk, snnnnnk, snort!!! Maybe I'm just too tied into the way Bau, Vandersteen and Kloss (1,2,3 and Large, Small and Baby) built speakers. I'm always underwhelmed by a speaker company that requires eighteen models to get it right. They may be great; but, if they are, why do you need so many models that would be doing the same thing? Emma seemed to be happy with any amplifier I used. The smallest I had at the time was a forty watt, solid state, dual powered HK receiver from the mid 1970's. What you buy in a contemporary HT receiver is not the same kind of power; and, though Tim might disagree, I wouldn't pair Emma with too many of the current mid fi HT receiver crop. Emma would work well but you'd be short changing what you could hear through her. Pair her with a good integrated amplifier or separates and Emma will do a very nice job of bringing some hi end sound into your room for very little money. I would also suggest Emma might not be the speaker for a rocker. While she can absorb a lot of power, she will never bring the house down like a 10db more efficient speaker can manage. What type of amp do you have and what sort of music do you listen to, MNR3? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3621 Registered: Mar-05 | David, wonderful write-up! Looks like between you, me and Jan we'll have all the newbs thinking that Emma's a real living lady, LOL. Now you know I'm extremely curious to hear your impressions when you AB her against your Ascend 170s on your Denon AVR, right? Speaking of speaker comparisons, here's a very nice HUGE one I've just read on AVS which involved the Ascend 170/340s, Paradigm Atoms/20s/40s, DynaAudio 42s, some DIY speakers, and the new SVS SB-01s. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=647862&page=1&pp=30 |
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Bronze Member Username: Raj_pEvanston, IL USA Post Number: 55 Registered: Oct-05 | I dont really have much to add here except that I too love the way the Emmas sound with Holst's the planets. Jupiter in particular is just AMAZING. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3622 Registered: Mar-05 | Tim, maybe you could get the Emmas some exposure over on AVS too? On several occasions I've recommended and posted links for her over there and a couple of people said they were intrigued, but don't know if any of them actually contacted you or not. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 779 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks Eddie. I'll check it out. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 823 Registered: May-05 | Ed, Actually, I brought the 170s down to the 2 channel set up a couple of weeks ago to listen when I had been using the Heresy IIs. They were the better speaker IMHO but you would need a subwoofer to do them justice. Tell you what, though. I'll bring my rears down (can't upset the wife's movie watching too much) and do an A/B with the Emmas but I think the 170s are way overmatched in the bass department. BTW, I agree with Jan that the Emmas are not going to be a favorite speaker for hard rock folks. Emma really tried and the music sounded pretty decent but it's not her best genre. Now, I have to distinguish between hard rock, rap and the like and older studio cuts of rock bands like the Beatles. For example, I just bought the Beatles' boxed set and that sounded pretty dang good, including the typical studio mic pickup sound that's hard to describe but you know it when you hear it. It's all there. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1407 Registered: Dec-04 | Dave, well done! I am listening to Jan's Emma review disc right now, and what a diverse collection for a review. I didn't see if you used the bass test, did you? I'm gonna grab your thread for a moment Dave, svp, to thank Jan for the effort he put into the discs and the note. Thanks, Jan. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 952 Registered: May-05 | Sorry to jack the thread too (Remember, Nuck did it first). Thanks Jan for the CD. I was going to listen to it yesterday when it arrived, but I got in late from work. I've got the weekend off, and I'll give it a good listen. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 825 Registered: May-05 | Nuck and Stu, NP boyos, hijack away. No, I haven't gotten around to getting Jan a return address and a CD packet. Dang, I knew I forgot to do something before I went on vacation. So, Jan don't close off your deal just yet, I'll get mine in the mail sometime. Ed, just to clarify. I meant the CBM 170s were better than the Heresy IIs and not the Emmas. I haven't done that comparo, yet. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3625 Registered: Mar-05 | Oh yeah there's no comparison between the Ascends (the 340s let alone the 170s) vs. the Emmas as far as bass response goes. I have just been informed that this is because the Emmas have "a +3dB rise from 50-150Hz peaking between 70-90Hz" according to their FR chart on the website...whatever the reason, it's music to my ears! I guess I am no longer so sure about the whole notion of flat-FR "accuracy" as the paramount virtue in audio, nor even the "live music as reference" definition of "accuracy." Maybe the only universal truth in this hobby is, "Go out and listen to a range of stuff, then buy whatever pleases your ears most." Trite but true! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7621 Registered: May-04 | I guess the +3dB "rise" is relative to where in the bandwidth you compare what is happening at 70-90Hz. When viewed across the entire frequency response of Emma, the midbass is still within a very reasonable balance to what is happening above 500Hz. Room response is going to affect the frequency balance beneath 200Hz far more than the graphed rise in Emma's response curve. I would portray Emma as being close to the classic BBC curve in the lower octaves and many people will prefer that to an overly lean sounding speaker. Look at the frequency response graphs of most speakers to find just the same sort of bump in the same octave that Emma displays. It costs big bucks to even out response in that area and not sacrifice sound quality somewhere else. Even then, the room is your worst enemy throughout the lowest four octaves. Certainly for most music, in most rooms, the slight rise Emma might have is a beneficial response. What Emma can manage that most other speakers in her price range fail at it is the depth of response (with exceptionally clean sound) in the lowest octaves. As I said in my write up, in my HT room, the response from Emma was still producing audible bass response down to the low 20Hz region. Information beneath 30Hz was easily on average with what I was hearing at 100Hz. And, I just don't have much music that requires bass response beneath 40Hz. On the Emma test CD the Bass Outlaws selection, if you listen and compare, is primarily in the 60Hz range amd most who hear that track assume it is predominantly "low" bass. Don't get fooled by numbers. Listen to Emma and make the comparison to other speakers in her price range. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3630 Registered: Mar-05 | Yep, I was *very* impressed with how she handled your frequency sweep all the way down to 20Hz. Another way of describing Emma is that I found her to be very "Irish"---very lively, lyrical and passionate, attribute which made it easy for me to forgive a few moments now and again when she was less than precise. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 780 Registered: Dec-03 |  |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7629 Registered: May-04 | Now wait just a doggone minute! McIntosh does not wish to think of Emma as some kind of "fairy"! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1420 Registered: Dec-04 | Perhaps a 'gnome' Possed of magical troublemaking powers. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 781 Registered: Dec-03 | Lianhan shee |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1422 Registered: Dec-04 | I went to school with her. hehe Of course, I was an outsider, looking in. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 826 Registered: May-05 | Hello all, I guess I'm going to have to take those speaker covers off after all and see what Tim hid in there. Geez, now my wife is going to be jealous!!! LOL Jan and Ed, I am not a bass freak by any means but I do believe that tight bass at a reasonably low frequency is necessary to produce "live" sound and I certainly can't complain with what the Emmas do down there, especially given their size and price point - they are absolutely amazing in that regard. Kudos to Tim on a speaker well done. Now, how do you get the speaker covers off again without letting her get away or scaring back inside the vent? |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 784 Registered: Dec-03 | Place one hand on top of the cabinet. Grip one of the upper corners with the finger tips of your other hand and pull. Be firm, but gentle. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 827 Registered: May-05 | Tim, Went to O'Dougharties pub for lunch. It was highly recommended that I not try too awful hard to find the Lianhan shee, (http://members.tripod.com/~pg4anna/shee.htm), I guess she can be hard to live with, Pun fully intended. But if you've got to go, I guess I can think of worse ways although Jan should be much more concerned than me, he's much more poetic by far. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 785 Registered: Dec-03 | "Most men find they cannot refuse her" |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 840 Registered: May-05 | OK, I promised Ed a follow-up with the Emmas in my HT system. Well, first of all, Emma was not very cooperative. You see her full-figured little self will not fit in my wife's lovely entertainment center. And, I suspect that Emma was not about to be placed on the floor lying sideways in that most unladylike of positions anyway. Certainly, she wouldn't give less than her best if forced but there was just no way I could force her into that position. (Tim, no worries, I didn't even try, honest.) So, I placed the Emmas to the sides of the fronts about six inches off the floor. Well, as previously reported, Emma has a much broader voice than do my Ascend 170s. Emma did not sound nearly as good at floor level as she did in my 2 channel system but she still produced perfectly appropriate sounds in the HT set-up. If I had the space and money to completely remodel my existing HT room or the money to purchase a very good projector for use in our basement bedroom, which would be an ideal dedicated HT room, I would likely put the Emmas up front with a Tim-produced center and place my Ascends as the sides and surrounds and I would be one very happy camper. As for music, I tried Ed but I just do not get as much joy from listening to anything in my HT set-up as I do in the 2 channel now. But, I will say that Emma sounded pretty darn good with DVD Audio of "The Planets" playing and my Diana Krall, Paris SACD playing. Unfortunately, I am too buried in work now to do much auditioning or writing AND, sadly, it's about time for me to send the Emmas back to Tim. I suspect I will move forward on changing my HT set-up in the next year and I so I suspect I will see Emma again, preferably in cherry. Thanks again, Tim, Emma was well worth the wait. Dave |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 806 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks Dave! |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 807 Registered: Dec-03 | There may be a 3 way floor stander in your future. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 842 Registered: May-05 | Tim, No, I'm not going to fall for that Myra deal now, am I? Or is this something you're working on in the price range between Emma and Myra? I really need to get over your way sometime and meet the whole Alegria family, although it's not a whole heck of alot cheaper than shipping costs. LOL Thanks, Dave. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 808 Registered: Dec-03 | Easy shippin' over the mountains and letting someone else do the drivin'. Yes, new 3-way concept is a tweener. No prototype yet. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 844 Registered: May-05 | Well, it's a sad day. I shipped Emma back to her daddy. Tears all around. Not exactly true, my wife was glad to get the boxes out of the living room. LOL Tim, all I can say is WOW!! An incredible speaker at an incredible price point. I can't wait to hear what else you have up your sleeves. Thanks, Dave. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 824 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks Dave. Are we having e-mail challenges again? I've sent 2 e-mails recently but no acknowlegement from you. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 845 Registered: May-05 | Tim, We must be, I haven't received either one. I'll go into our email server, which is giving us troubles, and see if I can't find why it's doing this. Thanks, Dave. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 825 Registered: Dec-03 | Dave, Sent you PM on eCoustics |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 851 Registered: May-05 | Tim, This is driving me nuts. I looked for you PM and I got a 3 month old PM but not yours. I'm going to send you an email again only this time with my home email address and I suggest that you just use that email. Thanks, Dave. |
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