New Speaker Wire and Connectors
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New member Username: ShocktrooperPost Number: 4 Registered: Jan-06 | Ok so I'm looking to cheaply boost the performance of my system so I bought a mini spool of Monster speaker cable and Monster wire connectors. I haven't used them yet but I'm wondering if this will make any difference at all (cause the old wires I used were about 20 years old and are fraying at the ends). |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7266 Registered: May-04 | Darn near anything's an imporvement over what you have. |
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Bronze Member Username: PraetorianPost Number: 63 Registered: Dec-05 | Maybe. The trick is that they are 20 years old, not because they are lacking some special property that your "THX" wire has. What might improve the quality of your wire's transmission is oxidization (iow: rust), is your older wire green? That MIGHT affect them of course, depending on the amount. Also the purity of your conductor is a factor as well. "Oxygen free" wire is not better because it is "oxygenless", but because if the other impurities the process takes out with it. Anyways, if they ends are "frayed" just cut them back half an inch, strip them and twist the ends again (assuming they are stranded, which BTW does NOT make a better "speaker wire"). As to "performance enhancements", the only wire-related factors affecting that are gauge, distance and resistance. The further you need to send the signal, the more the resistance of the wire is going to affect the signal strength. The further the distance, the higher the gauge required, but Shock, you do not need to go lower than 12 AWG if your talking normal "home theatre" applications, unless I miss my guess though, you bought 16 Gauge, no worries though, that will be fine. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7270 Registered: May-04 | ... the only wire-related factors affecting that are gauge, distance and resistance." Not to start another cable dispute but you forgot capacitance and inductance. Both of those qualities will be much more important to the stability and performance of most amplifiers than distance will ever be unless we are talking transmission over unreasonable distances. Then anyone discussing wire/cable should investigate how the wire interacts to become part of the circuit between the components at each end. |
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Bronze Member Username: PraetorianPost Number: 64 Registered: Dec-05 | Agreed, however, the nature of the question led me to believe complicating the issue would not help... |
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New member Username: ShocktrooperPost Number: 5 Registered: Jan-06 | Alright, Ill get to my second question. Is the 30 dollar spool Monster wire REALLY any better than the cheaper spool of wire that is a fraction of the cost? |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, Florida USA Post Number: 1284 Registered: Dec-03 | You will not hear a major improvement with most mid-fi gear. |
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New member Username: ShocktrooperPost Number: 6 Registered: Jan-06 | So the monster cables are a waste of $$$ |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7283 Registered: May-04 | Pride of ownership is worth $30! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7284 Registered: May-04 | You can take our word for what cable sounds best or you can buy the Monster and find out. Because, without the Monster cables, one night you'll think your system sounds like pounded dog crap and you'll realize, "I should've bought the Monster!" Then you'll have to buy the Monster anyway. Then you'll have wasted the money for the cheap stuff that you'll ditch. Then you'll be out even more than $30. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1078 Registered: Dec-04 | Well presented, Jan. Troop, the pride of ownership thing does matter to me, personally, as well. Save the nightes sleep and buy away! Keep the label om display, even. Enjoy! |
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New member Username: ShocktrooperPost Number: 7 Registered: Jan-06 | I have no problem spending a little $$$. It's just that it will cost a little more to buy Monster Cables for both my fronts and surrounds (and rears). So I just wanna be sure that it is worth it. If you guys give Monster your seal of approval I will gladly give Monster a shot (at least), cause you guys know much more than I do. |
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Silver Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 109 Registered: Nov-05 | Please read between the lines here. You do not need to spend the money! The only thing youll gain by getting the monster cables is a testosterone rush when your buddies are over. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 408 Registered: Oct-04 | I agree with David. If you want a nice pair of cables with all the bells & whistles: *Precision machined banana connectors with 8 expanded segments to assure a reliable connection. *24k Gold plating provides a non-corrosive, high conductive connection for superb signal transfer. *Braided protective jacket protects cable from abrasion and reduces drag when routing to equipment. *Outer jacket is molded around the conductors to protect them from damage and losing critical characteristics that maintain audio detail. *Positive and negative conductors that are twisted tightly to reduce inductance and improve low level resolution. *14 Ga. OFC (oxygen free copper) conductors give the purest signal path and produces extreme clarity and crisp detail. ...Then try these http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=181-604 DAYTON SCP-20 SPEAKER CABLES from PartsExpess.com, try to find a better finished cable for less than $45. |
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Bronze Member Username: PraetorianPost Number: 69 Registered: Dec-05 | Jan and Nuck, that is mean... Shock, the way I read your post you already bought the cable and are looking for reassurance... well, then you have it, there is nothing WRONG with the cable you have. Grab some radio-shack or local hardware store banana plugs and crimp away. You have a fine set of cables. If you have not bought them already, then I order you to head to your local hardware store, ask for x ft of 12 AWG stranded copper wire. There, DONE! BTW, when you lengthen it out, remember: "Measure twice, cut once! DO NOT SPLICE YOUR SPEAKER WIRES! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7313 Registered: May-04 | MC - You order him!? to buy some unknown something from the hardware store that might not even fit the connectors on his speakers and really could sound worse than the Monster and Nuck and I are being mean?! If you are going to give advice, give good advice. To begin with, there should be no need for banana plugs (particularly crimp on plugs) unless he intends to swap out cable all the time. Bananas are meant to be a temporary connector and not a permanent solution to the task at hand. Yep, it would appear he does already have the Monster cables in hand so I see no reason to chuck them to buy the stuff from Parts Express. While increasing pride of ownership if he displays the gold plated bananas, it's really unlikely to matter in terms of sound between the P.E. stuff and the Monster stuff. trooper, you've got the Monster so go ahead and use it for the front speakers. Don't spend the money on the surrounds unless the cables you already have running back there are in badf shape. Even then just buy some decent cable for the rears. Does that solve the problem? |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNew York City, New York Post Number: 863 Registered: May-05 | One of the many things I look for in speaker wire is a clear plastic jacket. Why? So I can see if the wire is corroding anywhere along the path. If they're going in wall, then this obviously doesn't hold any water. If you plan on keeping the wire for 20 years or so (not necessarily a bad thing), You'd most likely want to get a cable with a clear jacket. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1094 Registered: Dec-04 | I get called a lot of things, but mean is a rare one. I only agreed that the monster might be a point of pride(might even come with a label to display). Might work well, too! MC, you want fries with your order? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 409 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan, why are bananas considered temporary? Is it that they're merely one more obstacle between the source & speaker? I like them for the convenience (I'm a tinkerer). My point was that the Daytons are very good value if your in the market for finished cables. I've been play around with this stuff http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KAR10BLS-100 from knukonceotz.com, it's relatively cheap & the specs seem good...plus they're blue. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1100 Registered: Dec-04 | CM, you like the bananas because you likr to tinker, that is what makes them temporary. Bands use bananas for build up and break down for shows. You use them because you may disconnect and reconnect speakers quite often. Most people connect and leave them connected until the equipment, or themselves, expire, thus bananas are not used. However, lots of people want bananas, for the look of heavy power or band equipment, purely visual. And a good look, I might add. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 410 Registered: Oct-04 | Nuck, do you consider them an impediment? what are you using? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1101 Registered: Dec-04 | Not in the least. A solid, repeatable connect of good quality(or good enough quality for me), would never be a bad thing at all,Christopher. |
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Silver Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 110 Registered: Nov-05 | Monkeys eat bananas, does that count? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1103 Registered: Dec-04 | Even a blind Monkey can find a banana once in a while. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7319 Registered: May-04 | More to say later. Someone wants to watch "The Aristocrats" right now. But ... "The wire actually will repel noise due to its twisted construction. Each conductor is composed of 462 strands of the finest copper (5N Purity) for superb audio accuracy and flexibility. Each strand has been tinned. The tin contributes to a better sound quality by minimizing the skin-effect (lowering the current jumps between the wire surfaces)." If I had to say something about this, I would first point out the concept of repelling noise to be quite odd. I've heard of repelling vampires and werewolves but not noise. A cable can reject noise by twisting the conductors(though twisting only one pair of conductors will provide minimal shielding [ask Ray Kimber]) and I suppose this is what the writer intended. 5N's is not the "finest" copper. 6 nines (99.999999% pure) is considered the "standard" for audio cables. Tinning is not the way to better sound and has nothing to do with skin effect when the strands are only tinned on the very ends. Tinning is actually one more impediment to a good connection due to dissimilar metals interfacing with one another. Copper to copper is generally the best connection. Not to mention the idea that you would probably not buy cables constructed of 5N's tin. The cables might sound fine but their PR needs some work. More on bananas later. |
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Bronze Member Username: PraetorianPost Number: 71 Registered: Dec-05 |  I gave up fries after watching "Supersize Me". I stand by my theory that you were making fun of him. You see, this is how I interpreted your post: What Jan wrote: You can take our word for what cable sounds best or you can buy the Monster and find out. Because, without the Monster cables, one night you'll think your system sounds like pounded dog crap and you'll realize, "I should've bought the Monster!" Then you'll have to buy the Monster anyway. Then you'll have wasted the money for the cheap stuff that you'll ditch. Then you'll be out even more than $30. What Michael read: Buy the Monster Cable because eventually you will give in to marketing pressure and think you "hear" crap sound because you did not buy what the "experts" use. So instead of buying stranded copper wire by the role at (insert local hardware store name here) and THEN chucking it (due to the "obvious" impediment the "cheap stuff" is causing) and then buying the Monster cable, skip the middle man and go straight for the sucker-wire. Did I read you wrong? I will fully admit that my use of bannana plugs is merely a consession to tidiness, I never said they weren't. As well, I find the concept of "skin effect" odd in stranded wire... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7322 Registered: May-04 | Here we go. We're headed right down the path I didn't want to take with this thread. Does wire make a difference? No, you didn't read what I wrote incorrectly. You simply read what I wrote with your bias overlaid on top of my words. If you go into the question with the opinion that wire is wire and what you buy off a "roll" at the local home improvement store is just as good as anything else, then you will think anything that costs a penny more than that is a "sucker-wire" marketed by sham "experts" to the unsuspecting dupe. If, on the other hand, you consider speaker cables to have an affect on the sound of the system, you'll go for a better quality cable at a just few more dollars. You won't consider yourself a "sucker" and you'll be OK with the whole experience. And you'll move on to listening to your system and not thinking about what different wires might do. End of cable story! I think it only fair to assume trooper has already "succumbed" to the marketing/salespeople since he already has the cable in hand. In my opinion what he has purchased is a certain bet to be of good quality construction and will work fine with any receiver/speaker combination he chooses. So why mess with that? He can do worse at the local hardware store. (Please, no comments about the HD extension cords. Trooper has his cable.) I'm not interested in another cable debate and I'm not advocating the imaginary $5,000 "snake oil" cables the skeptics always use as an example of someone being "suckered". Trooper has the cables. They are good cables and are likely to improve the sound of his system over what he has been using. Why not let it rest at that? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1104 Registered: Dec-04 | I really think the OP and 2 following posts tell all that Troop required(although no equipment was listed as a clue towards motivation). On a purely technical question, what resistance might I expect from 12g BB speaker wire? Then, say, equivelent Kimber wire? I have a follow up after an answer or two. Have a great weekend. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7327 Registered: May-04 | Resistance to what? Sitting up? Rolling over? Playing dead? Resistance measurements in a cable are not usually of any consequence. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 791 Registered: Dec-03 | I'm in the business of manufacturing and selling high purity chemicals and metals. Unless you are in the semiconductor business or want to sell high end cables to those that want to spend the money, any well made 12-14 gauge wires will be great for most people as long as the connections are done tight and proper and you don't use very low ohm speakers that dip to 1 ohm. The standard Copper wire most speaker manufacturers use is 99.9-99.99%. Whether it is OFHC or not is usually not important, although in OFHC Copper the Iron (Fe) is usually lowered--and that is better. Certain transition metals, such as Iron, can have a deleterious effect. Since speaker manufacturers are using 100's of feet it would be silly to think the last 10 feet connecting to your receiver or amp is any more important. Just buy any good OFHC Copper wire with good/tight connections. If it makes one feel better to buy more expensive--do it. But it isn't necessary or audible. If you have oxidation at the ends of the cables--clean them. If the oxidation runs past the ends--get new cable. There are simple tables available that graph the appropriate wire gauges for the length of run to speakers, such as: http://www.rogerrussell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable It is also an interesting site by a former designer of speakers at McIntosh. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 184 Registered: Nov-05 | Everything you wanted to know about speaker cable: Happy wiring. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1112 Registered: Dec-04 | Now THAT'S a definitive statement Gregory, thank you. Now I have to post a q. I purchased my Rotel 985 amp from a dealer on a trade in. The owner said the amp would shut down at his place running kimber1, driving mountain audio Greens(i think). At the store, the amp would perform without a hitch, using standard(non kimber type twist)m to large levels on the same speakers. The kimber was the issue. Comments? Leading back to my q of impedence alone. |
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New member Username: ShocktrooperPost Number: 8 Registered: Jan-06 | Ok, second question. With most cable there is a strand that is red and a strand that is black. The Monster speaker cable is red on both strands...so which is for "-" and which is "+" |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 187 Registered: Nov-05 | Whatever you wish - just keep it consistant at all connections. One strand may have printing along its length, you can use that as a guide to keep things the same. |
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New member Username: ShocktrooperPost Number: 9 Registered: Jan-06 | Ahhh, thought so, but just wanted to make sure, thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7357 Registered: May-04 | Noel Lee is a real jokester from the 1970's. He expects you to get really, really drunk on some really cheap wine and good and stoned (he suggested some Hawaiian stuff that sparkled once) before you hook up his cable. He sits on his yacht counting his cash and thinking about all the drunk reeferheads crawling along the floor trying to keep track of which side of the cable is which. He was a Deadhead once, too. For about seven months and three and one half days. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 188 Registered: Nov-05 | |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 798 Registered: May-05 | So, do I buy the Monster cable or not, I'm so confused! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 193 Registered: Nov-05 | I did and am darn proud of it! Or because nothing else was available 'cept 18 awg. I now have my 602S3's bi-wired with the heavy Monster for low to mids and Kimber for the highs. Sounds okay to me. Do it Dave and if you're ashamed just don't tell anyone Unless you're under oath of course! |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNew York City, New York Post Number: 882 Registered: May-05 | Dave, A cheaper alternative to Monster is Acoustic Research. As far as I can tell (AR replaced my Monster), they are one in the same. You can get 50 ft of AR for what they charge for 30 ft of Monster. Best Buy carries it. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1139 Registered: Dec-04 | Dave,you don't need to go to the shrink couch over this one. Go ahead and get the Monster, or the AR like Stu did. You didn't mention what is wrong with your current conductors. All chewed up?Look bad? The heartbreak of scoriasis? Do tell. |
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