NAD L53, B&W 602's and a sub?
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New member Username: Manhattan01Vancouver, BC Canada Post Number: 9 Registered: Aug-05 | Hi all, I'm trying to work together a setup with limited space for all the components (which is why I opted for the NAD L53). I'm thinking of pairing them with the B&W 602 S3's. I'd LOVE to get a pair of full range floorstanders but I just don't have the space. This is for a stereo setup so I'm wondering which subwoofer, if any, I would mate the 602's with. My initial thought was the HSU VTF-2. Is there a formula or are there guidelines in terms of mateing speakers with subs? Thanks a bunch. |
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New member Username: JethroLansing, Mi Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 | depends on your price range. best matches would obviously be the b&w 600 series subs which would give u 3 choices. asw600, asw650, or asw675. prices for each are around $450, $630, and $900 respectively. although mating a sub w/ speakers insn't an exact science, any of these 3 subs would be the logical choice and will definitely match well. Going with a sub from another manufacturer other than b&w may have an advantage; i.e. price bang for buck etc.. but if u go with 1 of the 3 b&w subs i listed, u will not ever come to regret it in my opinion happy listening |
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erererer Unregistered guest | If you use a sub, why not try the BW 601 or 600 speaker. Dont pay for the low range in the speaker if you will use a sub For my own taste the 602 dont need a sub Eduardo |
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New member Username: Manhattan01Vancouver, BC Canada Post Number: 10 Registered: Aug-05 | Thanks guy! I'll look into the 601's as well. My initial choice for speakers were either the Quad 11L or 12L but I don't think my NAD will drive them...or at least, it'd have an easier time with the B&W 600 series. Also, I believe they're pricier. Anyway, if you think the 602's don't need a sub (that is, 49-22 is a good freq. resp. range for music) I might go with those without a sub first...see how they sound. Thanks! |
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New member Username: JethroLansing, Mi Post Number: 9 Registered: Jan-06 | i think a sub would definitely be the way to go. the extra bass u get outta it u just can't replace with bookshelf speakers. if u gonna add a sub later thats cool, but man i have dm605s2's as fronts to my stereo which have great bass to begin with, added the asw675 10" sub and the difference is drastically better. i love the added bass, u can just feel the music more in my opinion, and that to me is important |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1139 Registered: Sep-04 | Spencer, The 602 is a full range speaker. You only need a sub if you really want very deep bass. You'd be better off (in my view) with better quality monitors such as Totem Mites, but I'm a bit of an accuracy nut. The Quads are a piece of cake to drive. The L53 should find no problem with them. I disagree with Jeff about using the B&W subs. I appreciate that they're timbre matched to the B&W speakers, but I find the B&W subs to be less competitive than some. I've played with the 675 and there's no doubting the power, but I have a real problem with the amount of cabinet resonance one gets from it. It might as well be an empty cardboard box in my view. Lots of bass, poorly defined. I haven't played with the HSU. Brands I rate are REL, M&K, Velodyne and Totem (not usually known for their subs but they're good). The most 'universal' of those (timbrally) would be the REL and Velodyne. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jorge59Rio de JaneiroBrasil Post Number: 70 Registered: May-05 | As far as I understand, the sub doesn't have to be "timbre matched" since the frequence range in which it operates does not overlap with those of the speakers. If you are in doubt about getting a sub or not, just for sake, pick a $300 Hsu STF-1 to fill the bottom end of your B&Ws. |
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Bronze Member Username: Manhattan01Vancouver, BC Canada Post Number: 11 Registered: Aug-05 | Interesting. I had been referred to the Totem line but after looking at the specs, I didn't think my NAD would work with it. Ideally, I'd get the right speakers and the receiver/amp to match but in this case, I'm stuck with what I have. I'll see if I can demo the 602's and 11L from somewhere without a sub...either that or I move my (cheap PDR-10) paradigm sub from my HT setup to see how it fills the bottom end. Thanks Frank, Thanks Jorge! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 141 Registered: Nov-05 | I didn't think the 602's would be classified as a full range speaker, however they do produce decent bass, though some say it can a little bloated, from my experience I say nonsense. For hi-res surround music and surround movies I use a sub, for 2 channel music the 602's do very well without. |
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New member Username: SpeakerfanPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 | Has anyone out there heard of Stealth Acoustics!? They are comletely invisible, and after installing mine, I have a full 5.1 with not one speaker showing! If you are familiar with Sound Advance think about 1/2 the work and twice the sound work and you'll be thinking about Stealth Acoustics. You can check out their site at www.stealthacoustics.com They not only have their full range models (my new RLC and rears!) but also offer a completely invisible subwoofer! They all fit right in between my studs and for a speaker that you can't see, the sound qualitly is amazing! Anyway, thought that I would pass this idea along to the rest of you out there. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 143 Registered: Nov-05 | Your hijacking this thread mr Azzano - why not start a new one to continue with your blatant advertising campaign? |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 836 Registered: May-05 | Spencer - The L53 will have a difficult time with Totems. You may also want to look into PSB. PSB and NAD have had a long synergy together (now they're owned by the same parent company). If you're looking into towers, you may want to hear the Image T45 and T55. I highly doubt that you would need a subwoofer with either of these. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1015 Registered: Dec-04 | Stu, have you heard the T45/55's? I might replace the Stratus and wondered if somebody has heard. Nuck |
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New member Username: G_venkPost Number: 8 Registered: Jan-06 | Two things to consider: NAD L53 is rather bright unlike most NAD equipment so the speakers should not be emphasizing the mid-treble too much. It is also marginal in power and so best to stick to 8ohm high-efficiency speakers. The L53 does not have any cross-over frequency management for the sub out and so the sub needs to have its own settings. Otherwise, you might get too much overlap or a gap between the sub and the mains. Most of the subs being considered here should have cross-over settings anyway. |
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Bronze Member Username: Manhattan01Vancouver, BC Canada Post Number: 12 Registered: Aug-05 | I just checked out the PSB line. I do like what the Image B25 monitors offer but I'm hesitant in trying them on the L53 since the B25's are 4-6ohm rated. Frank, what would you consider full range (for music)? The 602's are 49-22 and I thought the low end fell a little short. |
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Bronze Member Username: Manhattan01Vancouver, BC Canada Post Number: 13 Registered: Aug-05 | My Dad (overseas and an audiophile nut - where as I'm very much a beginner) is pushing me to ditch my NAD and setup a system with the Totem Mani's. Admittedly, the specs on that monitor look just about perfect for what I want...too bad I can't drive the thing with what I have now. There is a pair of 11L's on Audiogon for sale...I just might... Thanks for all the feedback and advice guys! Very much appreciated. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 837 Registered: May-05 | Nuck - I own the PSB Image T55's. What do you need to know? |
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New member Username: UkavnovicePost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 | Thinking about buying an NAD L53 looks a good spec for the money and am a fan of the NAD kit - has anyone tried playing DVD-R or DVD-RW discs on this unit as this is a 'must have' for me, Many thanks, |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7382 Registered: May-04 | "As far as I understand, the sub doesn't have to be "timbre matched" since the frequence range in which it operates does not overlap with those of the speakers." On this matter you should understand the crossover from the sub to the main speakers is not going to occur between 80 and 81 Hz. It is a "crossover" which implies, by all current definitions, a point where both speakers handle the same information as the signal is crossed over from one driver to the next in both directions up and down the frequency scale. Depending on the crosover slope employed, a sub crossed at 80 Hz could conceiveably still be producing audible output up to 300 Hz (through the vocal region of most male voices). The main speakers could be making "bass" down to 30 Hz (into the fundamental range of most instruments). That's a fairly broad region for two drivers of dismimilar construction and amplification (most plate amps sounding very different than most other devices) to be sharing. Additionally, since the fundamental frequency of most bass signals has a strong first harmonic (30 Hz has more energy at 60 Hz than any other frequency) and the location of the signal is determined by the upper harmonics (which, in theory, extend on up the frequency scale into infinity) which the main speakers carry, it is unwise to ignore "timbre matching" in the subwoofer you pair with your main speakers. Ideally, your main speakers should be nuetral enough that any decent sub can be considered "timbre matched"; but a Klipsch subwoofer paired with a Harbeth main array is going to betray its dual heritage in short order. |
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Bronze Member Username: G_venkPost Number: 16 Registered: Jan-06 | Rob, see my review of the L53 in the following thread and the followups to decide on your own. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/179609.html About playing DVD-Rs and DVD-RWs, I have not had any problems. However, like many DVD players, the L53 transport is not the most stable and so for example, doing things like putting stick-on labels on those DVDs will make them malfunction on the L53 DVD player (especially, the last 1/3). This is a common problem with many DVD players and not just the L53. Typically, good consumer electronics grade DVD players do better in this regard than the PC peripheral type DVD transport that L53 uses (which also explains its asthmatic behavior). For the price, you can do much better with separates but there aren't any comparable alternatives for an integrated DVD-receiver. Also note that this unit has no pre-outs (other than a SW out) and so is not meant for any expansion possibilities. All these quirks and limitations are explained away by calling it a lifestyle product.  |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1147 Registered: Dec-04 | Stu, I just picked up your response from 01/13, thank you. How do you find the bass response from these Psb,s? The parts look quite similar to the stratus silvers I have, but bass response has never been their strond suit. In particular, were you able to move them around for bette response, and if so, where did they end up? Thanks again |
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Bronze Member Username: Frostyda9Calgary, AB Canada Post Number: 81 Registered: May-05 | "I might replace the Stratus and wondered if somebody has heard." That is a bold statement, do you find the Silvers that lacking? |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNew York City, New York Post Number: 883 Registered: May-05 | Nuck - The T55's bass response was one of the main reasons why I bought them. I've only heard the Silver i's once and they were being powered by Bryston gear a long time ago, so I can't really compare the two. I use the T55 for 2 channel music, not H/T. If you're looking for powered sub type bass you may find them lacking, esp for H/T. I listen to a lot of bass heavy music (Classic and modern rock/metal) and have never had the urge to get a sub. I found that most other speakers in it's price range either had problems keeping up with fast bass, cabinet resonances, port noise, or a combination of them. Relatively speaking, the T55 had none of those. Some songs I use to evaluate bass are 'Paranoid' by Black Sabbath, 'Mudshovel' by Staind, and 'Sober' by Tool, and 'Straight out of Line' by Godsmack. These songs through the T55 sound the way I think they're supposed to. The only flaw I see in them is they lack a little detail in the mids and highs. It's not a huge lack of detail, but if you're a 'detail freak' who likes details to the point of almost being clinical, you may not like the T55's. I think what they lack in detail, they more than make up for in musicallity. I thought the main differences in the T45, T55 and T65 is the bass response. I found the T55's to be the best overall. The T65 goes a little deeper, but I think it's less controlled. The T45 is very well controlled, but it doesn't go as deep as the T55. For music, some people like the T45's bass better then the T55, but most think the T55 is the best of the three. I currently have them in a 9ft equallateral triangle. I also toe them in a lot. Sitting at the apex, I have them toed in to the point where they directly face me (exactly on-axis). When looking at them, I can't see the sides. My current room is odd shaped (a loft), so it took a long time placing them and everything else in the room just right. I'm a little neurotic about that, so take that as you will. My previous room was just about perfect. It was about 12ft x18ft. In their, I had them in the corners - 1.5 ft (approx 45 cm) away from the side wall, and 1 ft (30 cm) away from the back wall. Toed in about 15 deg. Listening postiion was 9 ft away. I wish I could have kept them in this room, but they sound 99% as good where they are now. Hope that helped. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1160 Registered: Dec-04 | Yeah, Stu, helps a lot. Are they on points? Frosty, My positioning is rather rigid, as my just long enough cables are strung through the ceiling and cannot be pulled back through(ain't no builder, this Nuck). I think the room is just not going to work for what I want to hear. 15x30, 2 teleposts, an 8' ceiling in wood, poor, poor, listening.I havnt had them on sppikes in their present position, come to think of it, that I shall try next. Thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNew York City, New York Post Number: 890 Registered: May-05 | I have them on the supplied spikes. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1179 Registered: Sep-04 | Spencer, Most Totems are beyond the L53, but the Mites are not. They're reasonably easy to drive. As for Mani's, well that's what I use and they are wonderful, but then I have huge power behind them - far more expensive than an L53! Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: Manhattan01Vancouver, BC Canada Post Number: 14 Registered: Aug-05 | Thanks Frank. This may be a stretch BUT I can get a pretty good deal on a pair of Totem Forests. Only problem is that they're rated at 120W continuos and the NAD I have is at 50W. How 'bad' would this be? I don't plan to listen at very loud levels (living in a townhome) but it is a big room. The speakers are a good deal BUT still expensive and I don't want to risk clipping them. I've tried looking around online on what happens when your power source is less than your speakers (in wattage) and I can't find too much information...usually people are asking about the reverse situation. What can I expect if I did this - other than completely damagine both speakers and amp? Hmm...looks like I've moved on from what I was originally planning for speakers. How things change... |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1189 Registered: Sep-04 | Bad. The Forests are easier to drive than Mani2s, but an L53 has little hope of doing them justice especially in a big room. Remember that the unit has to couple to the air volume in the room in order to drive it (at any level). Therefore, putting a difficult speaker just makes things worse. Look at Sttafs or Hawks (possibly). Regards, Frank. |
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