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New member Username: MusicluvrPost Number: 7 Registered: Apr-05 | I have an AR-XB turntable that I purchased as a teen that is in decent condition. It is nowhere near mint. On the Audiogon scale I would rate it maybe 6-7 due to age and various scratches and marks on the unit. The cartridge mounted is a Denon 103S low-output moving coil, which when new, cost around 2-3 times the price of the table. The stylus is likely worn out, but I do not know how to determine that. It needs a new belt and a new mat. The phono preamp is a solid-state homebrew running off of 9V batteries that I built myself. Other than the mat and belt it appears functional, although I have not made the effort to even try to hook it up in at least 5 years. When I plug it in and flip the switch the motor turns. I checked continuity from the RCA's to the headshell and it's all good. Since the last time it was used to spin a disk, my system has been completely replaced from source to speakers. My main integrated amplifer, a NAD C372, doesn't even have a phono input. My plan is to get the AR functional, then from there, decide first if I really want to get back into vinyl, and second whether to go for modifications to the AR or sell it and get a new table. Before I embark on this project I would appreciate it if anyone knowledgeable in AR turntalbles, or turntables in general would offer their guidance, comments, or suggestions. 1. How can I determine if the stylus is worn out? 2. If it is too worn to use, where can I get a replacement? The Denon cartridge was an awesome sounding unit in its day, and I would bet that it would still hold its own among newer models. 3. In case I decide to sell the AR, is there any downside in terms of affecting the value if you do irreversible modifications like replacing the power cord with an IEC socket or replacing the hard wired phono cables by mounting RCA terminals to the base. Long ago, the original RCA's were corroded so they have already been replaced. 4. Would the following work? Connect the AR to my phono preamp, the phono preamp to my old integrated amplifier (NAD 3125) with Phono In, Tape Out from the 3125 to my C370 amplifier in. Again, any comments, suggestions or questions would be appreciated. |
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New member Username: MusicluvrPost Number: 8 Registered: Apr-05 | Ooops! I realize that I did not fully explain one point in my initial posting. I BELIEVE that my DIY phono preamp steps up the low-output moving coil cartridge to the level of a regular MM cartridge and therefore still requires an RIAA Phono input to operate correctly. My C372 doesn't have one, but the 3125 does. If the DIY phono preamp stepped up to line level, of course, I could simply connect directly into the C372. I said "I BELIEVE" because it has been so long since I used this thing, and even longer since I built it, that I honestly do not remember if I had to connect it to the Phono In or the Aux In. Such a shame, my memory isn't what it used to be. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6617 Registered: May-04 | Once the table is up and running just plug the phono leads to the "pre amp" and then into a line level input. You'll know within seconds if the pre amp is merely a step up device or also includes RIAA eq. That getting old thing is a b!tch! And your table feels the same way. Any rubber parts should be checked for condition. A new belt would be a nice treat for the ol' gal. Check the suspension parts for condition and readjust where possible. The sytlus will have to come off the arm for a check under a stylus microscope and then require realignment and set up. Those rubber parts on the cartridge are unlikely to have been enhanced by long storage. Most cartridges that have survived ten years or better will have damping pads at the end of the cantilever that will have dried out. There is no replacement or resurrection process for these pads. After all this time, and considering the hassle of finding a stylus microscope, you might as well consider a new cartridge. The 103 is still available and new models employ some better stylus types. There are also better MM and MC cartridges available today for less money than when the AR was new. None of the modifications you've done should affect the value of the AR. The table can go into the 3125 and then into the 372. The main bearing grease should be removed and replaced with new. Use either bicycle gear grease, teflon grease or silicon. http://www.needledoctor.com/ http://www.amusicdirect.com/ http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LG&Category_ Code=R http://www.vinylengine.com/manuals_dual.shtml http://hometheater.about.com/cs/turntables/a/aaturntablespin.htm?nl=1 http://www.musicangle.com/feat.php?id=54 http://www.audioreplay.net/ |
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New member Username: MusicluvrPost Number: 9 Registered: Apr-05 | Thanks for the suggestions Jan. The list of web sites is also very helpful, and I'm finding that there is quite a bit of information about AR turntables out on the web. There are even a couple of sites dedicated to modifications and discussions of this classic. I've also seen that the Denon 103 series cartidges have become something of a classic with updated models. It appears that they deliver good performance for the price in lower end of moving coil cartridges. I've opened up the turntable by removing the bottom cover and I'm impressed by the simplicity of the design. The things that needed to be built well for good audio performance were built well. The suspended chassis and belt drive design take the cheap motor and chipboard base out of the performance equation. While the motor looks cheap, attached to the motor is a nicely precision machined aluminum drive wheel. The chassis, outer platter, inner platter and bearing are over-built where it counts. The platter, chassis, and tonearm are integrated into a single floating unit suspended from the top plate by 3 conical springs. I would say that the tonearm is probably a weak point, but still no worse than most of the turntables of that era costing 2-3 times what the AR-XB cost. |
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Bronze Member Username: MusicluvrPost Number: 27 Registered: Apr-05 | Well, I got my AR-XB turntable into working order, but only temporarily. I'll eventually get around to getting it all set up in a more permanent configuration. Right now, I just want to make sure everything still works. I got a new belt and a new mat from www.needledoctor.com. I had to do a bit of work on the step-up preamp. The homebrew unit is battery powered and the 9V battery clips were bad. The local electronic supply store sold me two 9V battery clips for < $1.00. I cut off the old clips and spliced in the new ones and clipped in a pair of Duracell 9V batteries. Close up the preamp and hook it all up. My setup is a little unusual. I have a Denon 103S, low output moving coil cartridge and a step-up preamp matched to the cartidge. The turntable goes to the step-up preamp inputs, but my step-up preamp is intended to plug into the PHONO inputs of a preamplifier rather than the regular LINE inputs. In this case I'm temporarily using my my old NAD 3125, since my C372 doesn't have phono inputs. I could run the TAPE OUT from the 3125 to the C372, but right now I just want to hear some music out of this gear. I fire everything up and hear major hum. Oh yeah, I need to connect up the ground wire from the turntable to a true ground point. OK, after attaching the ground wire to the NAD's chassis everything is quiet. I spin up a 12" disk and all I can say is WOW. Even with a worn out stylus and cheap interconnect cables there is real depth to vinyl/analog playback. After playing a half a dozen tracks from a few disks I'm convinced that I will be keeping this rig. I guess I'll be looking at cartridges now. I've heard good things about Grado, and Denon has an updated version of the worn out 103S that I'm using. Any other suggestions? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6935 Registered: May-04 | No. There are plenty of good cartridges out there. Pick your sound and your price and give one a try. |
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Silver Member Username: Ca_convertCardiffUK Post Number: 165 Registered: Jan-05 | Quote "I spin up a 12" disk and all I can say is WOW. Even with a worn out stylus and cheap interconnect cables there is real depth to vinyl/analog playback. After playing a half a dozen tracks from a few disks I'm convinced that I will be keeping this rig. " Unquote Just dont do what I have just done and buy an old LP12.....I'm considering selling my entire CD collection.....!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: MusicluvrPost Number: 35 Registered: Apr-05 | ca_convert, I have visited the Audiogon phono section on a couple of occasions lately. The VPI Scout sure looks sweet. For the time being, a new cartridge and some DIY upgrades will keep me happy. Since I originally started with vinyl, I have a collection of about 400 albums to choose from. Many are great classics, and a lot of them I would be embarassed to admit owning. :-) Happy New Year |
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Bronze Member Username: MusicluvrPost Number: 78 Registered: Apr-05 | Here's an update on my AR-XB setup. I did some research on cartridges online and found that the Grados often do not match well with my model of the AR turntable. It's a coin toss whether or not persistent hum will turn up. I may someday give Grado a try if I can find a dealer that will allow me an audition in my turntable. After reading some reviews, I ordered an Ortofon OM 10 Super from Needledoctor. The Ortofon OM series all use the same cartridge body with interchangeable stylus. I like the feature of being able to upgrade to better performance by replacing the stylus. Overall, I'm a pretty happy with this cartridge. It's nothing special with the extreme high and low HZs, but it is relatively quiet and nicely balanced. I've found that switching back to my old speakers (Boston Acoustics T830s, purchased when I was listening primarily to the AR) gives me the best sound with the turntable. I can see now that attaining a fully synergistic system with both CD and phono sources can be very tricky indeed. |