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New member Username: StinkpotPost Number: 7 Registered: Mar-05 | Hi all, It's time to upgrade my pre-amp. I'd like to start using an input with optical in and my old pre-amp doesn't have one. I've checked out some of the higher end separate pre-amps with optical in (rotel, adcom) and they're way out of my price range. I've noticed on the forums though that people often just use a receiver as a pre-amp ... that seems like a bit of overkill to me. Nevertheless, I can actually afford a receiver. So, can anyone recommend a good receiver to use solely as a pre-amp? I hear the Yamaha RX-V657 is a good deal ... My upper price limit is about $500. Right now, I have only a stereo setup (pair of Maggie MMGs driven by an old Hafler beast). In the future, I may buy a set of surrounds. (Quick question - if I run the front speakers out of the pre-outs into a separate amp, will the receiver still power a pair of speakers plugged into the rear speaker-outs? Thanks! -LD |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1941 Registered: Feb-05 | Yes it will. I have that Yamaha receiver and an old Hafler 9505. It works like a charm. I also use an NAD pre amp but that's another story. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2545 Registered: Mar-05 | one of the regulars here, Art, has the 657 with a Hafler amp too. He should be able to give you some specifics. Also someone else uses an HK 235 with I think a NAD amp. I used to use my Marantz 5400 with some NAD separates...then got a $230 all-digital Panasonic sa-xr55 and now the NAD is in my bedroom system and the Marantz is headed for eBay. LOL, how everything changes! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1942 Registered: Feb-05 | There goes Eddie selling that damn Panny again..lol. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2546 Registered: Mar-05 | dangit, don't blow my cover Art! : ) |
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New member Username: StinkpotPost Number: 8 Registered: Mar-05 | Art - where did you find the RX-V657? Can you recommend a good retailer? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1943 Registered: Feb-05 | I bought mine at Home Video Library in Portland, Oregon and I wouldn't say they were a good retailer they were just the closest. You should be able to use the dealer locater for the RX-V series on the Yamaha site to find a retailer near you. http://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/dealer.aspx |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 473 Registered: Feb-04 | From what I read on other forums the better Yamaha receivers have very quiet pre outputs. But I've always wondered about damaging the receiver's internal amp by running it with no speaker load. Is it a problem? |
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Silver Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 154 Registered: Jun-05 | Edster was half-right.. I use the HK AVR235 as a pre/pro with an Outlaw amp (not NAD) and it does a great job. The Yamaha V-series receivers DO have a very nice pre-amp as well, but if you're looking in the $500 price range, you can also buy a used Outlaw 950 pre-amp off Ebay or Audiogon - the warranty is 5-year and fully transferable from the original owner. I would have gone that route but: 1) I wanted to save a few bucks (the HK was $261 refurbed from Harman on Ebay), and 2) I need the lip-sync feature the newer receivers offer. |
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New member Username: StinkpotPost Number: 9 Registered: Mar-05 | Thanks for all the great advice guys. Saving a few bucks is always welcome ... can anyone offer a reason to spend the extra $100 or so on the HK AVR235 instead of the Yamaha RX-V657? |
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New member Username: StinkpotPost Number: 10 Registered: Mar-05 | sorry - flip that! extra $100 or so on the Yamaha RX-V657 instead of the HK AVR235! |
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Silver Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 156 Registered: Jun-05 | The major benefits of the Yamaha are its DSPs and XM Radio-ready. If you're going to be buying Maggies as surrounds, I don't know how well the Yamaha will handle them. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1945 Registered: Feb-05 | Best option, get rid of the Maggies. Sorry that's my bias showing. Been there, done that. |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 475 Registered: Feb-04 | "But I've always wondered about damaging the receiver's internal amp by running it with no speaker load. Is it a problem?" Hello? |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 659 Registered: May-05 | "But I've always wondered about damaging the receiver's internal amp by running it with no speaker load. Is it a problem?" If you have disconnected the pre-out/main in jumpers, then no signal is going into the internal amp. I've never heard of anyone having problems because they didn't use the internal amp. I've also never heard of anyone having any problems because they didn't use all of the speaker outs. I'd imagine their are a lot of people who have 7.1 receivers who only use it as 5.1. If you're still concerned, their might be a setting on your receiver that allows you to turn off speakers that aren't being used. |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 479 Registered: Feb-04 | Stu, Thanks for your answer. It does make sense that any unused channels, aside from the two front mains, can be turned off. But can the front mains output be turned off as well? It does occur to me that if there was a problem with an amp's unloaded output causing serious damage there would be many warnings to that effect, and it would be common knowledge among even casual audiophiles like me. Maybe I answered my own question. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 660 Registered: May-05 | Most receivers vary as far as what features they have. I don't know what receiver you have, let alone know if the front mains can be turned off. However, if you are using the receiver as a pre-amp and have disconnected the pre-out/main in loop, then no load should be present at any of the speaker terminals, because they aren't getting a signal to try to push out. In other words, the electrical circuit is opened (meaning a break, or a switch turned off so to speak) before the signal reaches the amplifier, therefore their is no electrical signal reaching the amplifier, let alone the speaker terminals. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6161 Registered: May-04 | A solid state transistor amplifier will not be damaged by running with no load on the outputs. A tube based power amplifier will however be damaged with no load on it's output stages/transformers. So until these manufacturers wise up and begin producing tube based 7.1 receivers, there's no need to worry. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2586 Registered: Mar-05 | > tube based 7.1 receivers, holy cow, now that I'd like to see! and hear, of course. |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 481 Registered: Feb-04 | We've talked about this one before. The tube-based Fosgate FAP V1 pre/pro is available, although it supports Dolby Pro Logic II. Wonder how many of these they've sold? |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 437 Registered: Mar-04 | well eddie isn't the only panny convert. i bought an SA-XR55 about a week ago and it's SO DARNED GOOD that i'm finally happy with my system detail at low volumes when watching movies late at night that i no longer want to invest in the magnepan MMGs that i originally bought it for. i wasn't expecting the panny to improve my sound top to bottom so much. bass is tighter and deeper, midrange is very liquid and treble is detailed and natural. even if i put my ear right next to my tweeters, i can't hear any grain! all the time i thought my speakers were holding me back, it turned out that it was amplification. for a silly $240 delivered, my system has jumped up about 1/2 way to the resolution of planars. i might not have their absolute speed, but my midrange is pretty close to their coherency with the added perk of much tighter image specificity. there REALLY IS something to panasonic and class-d amplification claims. the biggest improvement has to be the midrange. well recorded vocals are silky smooth and almost believable now. as to using recievers as preamps, make sure you double check with the manufacturer if you want to use it as a surround preamp. many recievers won't output digital ins as analogue out. it's a shame that all of the affordable japanese brands stopped making surround preamps. you can either buy a reciever with amps you don't need or spend $2,000+ for a high end unit. panasonic isn't the only class-d game in town now either. JVC sony & harmon kardon all have class-d models out now. look out... now eddie has A WITNESS! LOL "preach it brother preach it! can i get a paaaan-nee?! hah!" |