DIY Subwoofer
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New member Username: 3k_fxIowa United State... Post Number: 1 Registered: Sep-05 | OK, I'm new to the whole A/V department (15 years old). I've always loved great loud and clear music (esspecially my dad's old vintage Pioneer setup; 25+ years old). This summer, I finally worked up enough money to buy my own system. Pioneer VSX-515-K 6.1 channel 110 watt amplifier Pioneer S-G300B-K speakers At the same time I'm very impressed and a little disappointed in my setup. I spent $308 on the system so I think I got the biggest and best quality system I could for the money I spent, but I was rather disappointed by the bass response of these speakers (only rated down to 50 hz). My dad's old Pioneer CS-610 speakers still blow these away AND THE SUBS ARE KICKED IN!! So, after my lengthy introduction, I'm asking for advice on a homebuilt sub I'm looking at building when I get the money. I do NOT have a very large budget, and at the current rate, the sub I'm looking at building may be too expensive for me. But here I go anyway. Box - H: 673.1 mm W: 419.1 mm D: 609.6 mm 1" MDF board Vented Box Internal volume 113.3 L (after estimated bracing, amp, and cone displacement) Vents=2 76.2 mm diameter 368.3 mm length Speaker Peerless XLS 12" Plate Amplifier BASH DIGITAL SUB AMPLIFIER 300W  This is the response curve of the sub. The port velocity and cone excursions are all within exceptable ranges until 22.5 hz or so with 300 watts power.   Now, without increasing expenses any, do any of you have suggestions on how to increse either max SPL or how to extend the range down any? I'd like to achieve a 20-150 hz range with +/-3 db differences. I'd also like to be able to do all of this while powering the sub to it's full 300 watt capacity (though I'd probably rarely need the full power). Lastly, I'm not one for sloppy and messy bass. I have friends who have bought 1000 watt subs (car however) for less than $100 and they talk about how they are so great. I can't stand to have the sloppy and messy bass that these cheaper subs produce. So I suppose I should take into account Group Delay. What is an acceptable delay in speaker response? I plan on using this to play lots of music on (need quick tight bass for the kick drum) but I also like to watch movies and play electric bass over my speakers so I need something that can sustain loud output with good clean sound. Any suggestions? (sorry for the emensly long post. Just trying to cover all the bases) |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 524 Registered: Dec-03 | Try modeling a sealed box and see what gains vs. compromises you make with a vented box. Take particular note of group delay and where F3, F6 and F10 occur. Increasing SPL generally means a larger diameter driver. Increasing extension means either more total displacement or using EQ. "More bass doesn't always equal better bass". |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5719 Registered: May-04 | I would agree with T8. He has far more experience in the department of actually putting drivers together in boxes to make systems work, but I do know a sealed box will be far easier to model and much easier to build with good results in mind. You'll give up a few dB of output, but with the amplifiers you'll be using you should never notice the difference. If you are desiring taut, clean bass, it's almost impossible to beat a sealed enclosure for your first effort. "Bigger is not always better." |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 525 Registered: Dec-03 | For my personal use I've gone away from the standard vented box altogether. I've found that a high quality, high excursion driver with a powerful motor in a sealed box provides excellent bass and I haven't missed the 15Hz extension that behemoth vented boxes provide. For those particular LFE tracks that go crazy low you may want to consider using tactile transducers. You're not really going to hear those sounds anyway. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5722 Registered: May-04 | Consider how expensive truly good, extended bass response can be. 20 Hz looks impressive on paper. You will seldom find it in reality, even on those dinosaur stomps and photon beam blasts. Put this project in the perspective of what you now own and what you are likely to own in the near future. At 15 you don't build a system that will last you the rest of your life. Read the reviews of top dollar subwoofers. Those who have pursued 20 Hz response, in room @ +/- 3dB, have spent enormous amounts of money trying to get what you want on the relative cheap. They soon realize the more they spend, the more they have to spend to get the balanced sound they truly desire. In this light, I would suggest you aim for a response that is very good down to about 35-40 Hz and not be too concerned with the few notes that are missing. If the response is really well defined, you probably won't miss them. In many cases the next higher octave up has the real energy of the sound. So, if your sub can do 35 Hz with definition, you will feel the sound with more impact than a sub that is loosely defined down to 20 Hz. Good, deep bass is expensive and not easily achieved in most rooms. Also consider where you will be using this sub. Small rooms do not do 20 Hz bass. Unless you have room for at least a bit more than 1/4 wavelength, you will create more problems trying to get 20 Hz in a small room than the effort will gain you in benefits. Particularly in small rooms, you will do betetr to build one very good sub, use it and then build a second sub to even out the response of the room. In this case, two smaller, quicker subs will give you better response than one large sub trying to over reach in extension in your room. Make this project a lesson in how to differentiate what looks good on paper vs. what does well in the real world. You've already had your first lesson when you realized your current speakers can be blown away by your dad's 25 year old speakers. Keep learning those lessons and you will be shaking your head in amazement at what your friends are doing with their car systems. You will have good music to listen to while they are rattling windows. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5723 Registered: May-04 | https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/157512.html |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 526 Registered: Dec-03 | I recently sold a sealed 10" active sub with a 100 watt amp in a 1 cu.ft. box. It was played after my 15" monster sub. The customer sat in amazement and asked, "Is that the only sub playing?" "Yep". He bought it on the spot. |
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Duglmac Unregistered guest | I was going to build a ported sub this weekend, but now I'm thinking of a closed enclosure, after your recommendation. I am going to use a peerless 10 inch CSX woofer and a 200w panel amp. How do you compute the box size? Or do I just make it 1ftx1ft and be done with it. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 534 Registered: Dec-03 | There are several software programs available to help you calulate box size. For example: http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?download=winisdpro If you're referring to the Peerless CSX 257H it will work fine in a 1 cu. ft. sealed box. Remember this is the internal volume. |
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New member Username: 3k_fxIowa United State... Post Number: 8 Registered: Sep-05 | OK, taking your advice, I modeled a sealed enclosure for the sub. It looks promising considering the smaller enclosure size since I'm not trying to take the response so low, and it's also simpler to build, but I can't get a nice flat response. The sealed enclosure just does a gradual slope downward all the way from 500 hz. Am I modeling the box wrong somehow? External dimentions are a 15" cube. (internal volume 41.77 liters). |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 540 Registered: Dec-03 | I'm assuming the Peerless XLS you're referring to is the car model. With it's low Vas and relatively high Fs you're not going to get any more extension without using a LT circuit or other EQ. It is designed to benefit from a small enclosure in a small space (a.k.a. automobile). In that price range there are better choices for a home audio sub driver. |
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New member Username: 3k_fxIowa United State... Post Number: 9 Registered: Sep-05 | Do you have any suggestions? I've leaned towards the Peerless XLS becuase of the numerous home audio sub tutorials out about the net. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 541 Registered: Dec-03 | One of these might be nice. http://www.adireaudio.com/Home/ShivaSeries.htm |
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New member Username: 3k_fxIowa United State... Post Number: 10 Registered: Sep-05 | Well, in BassBox I just noticed that you can add in a room gain that will factor into all the graphs. Do I want to model the sub using a room gain? If so, how large is the gain and where does it start? I can get a flat response down to 35 hz or so by using a 3 db gain at 100 hz. Is this a realistic figure for a small room (dimensions given above in previous post) built out of pine car-siding. I do plan on placing the sub in a corner so I know this will help boost the bass a bit. Any suggestions? |
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Bronze Member Username: 3k_fxIowa United State... Post Number: 11 Registered: Sep-05 | I've been reading up on more drivers and I came across the SoundSplinter RL-P12 driver. This looks to be about the perfect driver for me on both paper and in what I've read about user reviews. In a simple sealed box enclosure I can get 25-180 hz +/-3 db easily. I think this is due to the very low fs at 18 hz. However, if I plan on building the sub, I'm afraid there are two problems with this driver. One, it's $60 more than the Shiva driver, and also, RMS power is rated between 500-1000 watts (depending on application). Now finding a amplifier that will push 500 watts for a reasonable price after increasing the price of the driver is hard. So my frist question is whether anybody knows some good amplifiers for a sub such as this? They have to be reletivly cheap since my budget is $0 at the moment and I'll have to do lots of saving up to build the sub. Secondly, does anybody have any suggestions on other drivers that have a really low fs, and excellent sql for a bit cheaper. Just curious for other alternatives. Lastly, does a plate amplifier have to be used to power the sub? I know I could probably find another stereo amp for pretty cheap and use that to power the sub, but would it be more hassle then it's worth? I know I would need a crossover to cut the high frequencies unless I could somehow split the subwoofer out on my amp to the stereo inputs on another stereo amplifier. Is this possible? Just some of the things that have come across my mind while day dreaming in class |
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jaiBee Unregistered guest | Try Parts express. There new RS series subs are susspose to be excellent. Check out the HiFi models. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 619 Registered: Nov-04 | Peerless 12" XXLS for $176 http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=1964870.29642&pid=1790 but you may or may not want to get a passive radiator since the site does mention it http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=1964870.29642&pid=831 like the above poster, partsexpress has a 12" sub in the dayton reference series. heres the link http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-464 does not have a fs as low as you want but im sure you will get a good response. you can even ask the guys at partsexpress for help with the box. i want to get the 10" version to make my own sealed sub and got some info from someone at the tech support. for the amp you could try getting the 500W BASH plate amp or search on ebay for external sub amps. |
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