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New member Username: HjmorgstewPost Number: 2 Registered: Aug-05 | Hi, I own a NAD C370 amp, B&W DM602 S3 speakers, and a phillips CD 723 cd player. How much noticeable difference would i hear if i upgraded to say an Arcam CD73T cd player?, would it be comparable to the difference when upgrading an amp, or only the difference seen when upgrading speaker cable etc? Many thanks in advance |
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nout Unregistered guest | Well if I would believe the reviews (can compete with players up to $1000) it must be noticable...now serious, I think you will hear differences, the Philips is an older budget model (1998?) where the Arcam is introduced in 2004? or 2003? But it is the question if these differences will let you enjoy music more. In another post (https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/156903.html) I wrote this: I wanted to upgrade my ($250) Marantz cd 5000, a year ago and listened to various cd players up to $750. NAD C542, Marantz cd 7300, Marantz cd 6000 KI, Rotel RCD-02 and Rotel RCD 1072. Differences were minimal, at least not the clear differences you'll find with integrated amps. I found out that my Marantz cd 5000 wasn't that bad at all, it could easily compete with the rest, the tiny improvements I heard (especially with Marantz cd 7300 and NAD C542) didn't made me enjoy music MORE, so I kept my cd 5000. There was one cd player that really made a difference, but was also a lot more expensive: the Marantz CD-17mkIII ($1600). This is ofcourse just my opinion and experience, you should listen for yourself. |
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New member Username: DinyarMumbai, India India Post Number: 1 Registered: Aug-05 | Earlier this year I upgraded from a Sony 557 CDP (18x and all that ) to a Denon 2900 Universal Player. The difference was SIGNIFICANT... in fact MORE than an Amp upgrade. I do not know the sound or details of the CD723 or the CD73T, but if your CD player is 3 years or older, a CD player upgrade should yield a SIGNIFICANT difference. Ofcourse that assumes that your speakers are revealing enough... |
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New member Username: SuspecterrainGrant, MI US Post Number: 8 Registered: Jun-04 | The front end of your system represents THE BEST the sound can get - invest there first. |
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Bronze Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 44 Registered: Nov-05 | There's not too much wrong with h's front end. An upgrade to the Arcam CD73T should provide improvements, but only auditioning will tell whether the money will be well spent. I have a Denon 2900 (excellent universal machine btw) but, imho, my cheap Marantz cc-4300 5 disc player pips it for cd playback. Others might disagree as sound quality is a personal thing. |
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Daniel34 Unregistered guest | I just recently purchased Arcam Diva 73T, and although not sure how much improvement over your Philips this might give you, I can tell you that I'm very happy with it. To my ears it's in another class comparing to NAD542 and Cambridge Audio 640, both of which sounded OK, and are getting great reviews. Arcam just sounds way better to me. I also believe that Arcam would be good match for your amp. and speakers, but as as Rantz said in prev. post, only auditioning will tell for sure. Make sure you try few different interconnects as well, don't bother with Monster and such if you want to get best out of this CDP, JPS Labs, Kimber or Van Den Hul are some of what I would suggest you try, they aren't cheap, but nothing crazy either. I was pretty sceptical about interconnects before my purchase, but it's deffinitelly worth trying few different ones if you get a chance as they do make a difference. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2406 Registered: Feb-05 | I agree with most of the info that I've read here. I recently auditioned the Arcam as I was looking to upgrade from my NAD C542 which I think is a very fine player for the money. I was able to directly compare the Arcam with the NAD and the Cambridge. The Arcam really is a very good player and in a different league than the others. It had far greater resolution than either of the others with a refinement that I haven't heard in that price range. It easily bests the similarly priced Rotel. I auditioned it for hours and finally decided to buy an Audio Refinement CD Complete Alpha ($995 plus $50 for the remote). It really didn't best the Arcam I just preferred it's more analog or tube like presentation. The Arcam was more detailed without being harsh. Bottom line the Arcam is a very good product. |
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Bronze Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 50 Registered: Nov-05 | Art, I may have missed it , but could you describe the improvements you heard with the C542 over the CC-4300 and again, the Audio Refinement CD Complete Alpha (or even the Arcam) over the C542. The reason - I am really enjoying the CC-4300 with the C162/C272 combo with the 602S3's. I am wondering (for future consideration mind you) whether a higher end CDP would be worthwhile. Thanks in advance. Daniel, For the hi-res formats using my Marantz SR-7300 and Denon DVD-2900 I am using 6 el-cheapo Crest interconnects and it sounds great. I am under no illusion that better quality cables would be an improvement. Although I am not a fan of Monster cable, options here are limited and for my 2 channel set up, from the source and between the pre and power amp I tried 'Radioshack' type interconnects then upgraded to Monster IL200 and noticed a slight improvement then I relented and got the IL400Mark3 cable and again the sound became much more neutral with a good solid bass, and even more detailed upper mids and highs. To put things in perspective, the 400M3 cable here retails for $159AU pm. In your country it's more like $34US pm. So the better stuff here costs a small fortune. A few reviewers gave the IL400 a pretty good rap as it is very close to neutral - ie, it doesn't add too many negatives into the signal or, it doesn't color the sound to any significent degree. Which is the idea of a good cable. All in all, compared to many others available here, this particular Monster cable isn't really bad value. Though I do begudge even paying what I did (after convincing the salesperson I should have a discount). My point is I doubt whether there is much better in the budget cable range. |
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Daniel34 Unregistered guest | Art, I'm glad to hear we agree on NAD and Arcam ;-) I almost got NAD 542, it's really good CDP for it's price range, but then I made "a mistake" of auditioning more expensive Arcam, the rest you know ;-) I have to say that you did "caution me" from the day one, that this would happen Have fun with your new CDP. Rantz, Believe me, I'm seriously hurt (well not really ;-) but you get the point) after spending what I did for my interconnects. Had a hard time "validating" that expense (and I'm not talking wife only here ;-)). About a year or so, I would never imagine I'd spend this much on interconnects. But the difference is there for sure, and my logic was that since I'm upgrading, I should really go and upgrade, no half a... solutions (well within the budget). I have to admit that it did take me a while to pick up on this, but once I really sat and listened, and knew what to listen for, the improvement was there. Now don't ask me to rate it as I could not, but what I ended up with, was just more suited to my taste. That said, perhaps I could've gotten away with cheaper interconnects that would serve me just as well. Having a good dealer that lets you try diff. things is very important, mine did let me try a lot, but unfortunately didn't have too many of "cheap" interconnects ;-) |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2410 Registered: Feb-05 | The NAD C542 outperforms the CC4300 (which as you know I have in my second system) in every respect. It has far greater resolution, imaging, soundstage depth which is comparable but with the greater resolution of the NAD it is more believable. The shortcomings with the NAD are that the greater resolution comes with an occasional hard edge, or lack of refinement. Kind of like the differnce between the B&W tweeter in the 600 series vs the tweeter in the Paradigm Monitor series. The Paradigm is more detailed but at the expenses of refinement and long term listenability. Don't get me wrong I did not find the NAD fatigueing in the least just less refined than the best. The Arcam does everything that the NAD does better than the Marantz only with all of the refinement that the NAD lacks. It's detailed and crystal clear. However, as I've always used live music as a reference I found it to be near to unbelievable in it's resolution. Again this is only as compared to the Audio Refinement which in my opinion gets the essence of MUSIC right. I don't think that the Audio Refinement is going to be everyone's cup-of-tea as it does not have the same level of resolution that the Arcam or NAD does. When I A/B'd the Arcam and Audio Refinement I consistently heard details in the music with the Arcam that I didn't hear at the same level or presented as clearly as with th AR. However, the one greatest indicator of timbral accuracy and realism to me is the human voice and consistently the AR sounded more real to me (by a smidge). I opted for the AR but by just a hair. The CC4300 is a great budget cd player but really not in the same league with the others we have been discussing. MR, if you get another player I would seriously consider upgrading interconnects and speaker wire. |
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Bronze Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 51 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks for that Art. I realise the CC4300 is a budget player and one I'll want to keep especially for having the 5 disc option. It is a surprisingly decent player considering. The Denon 2900 CD playback is fairly decent also albeit slightly less detailed than the 4300 and possible a bit warmer. My next upgrade will be a higher end cd player whether that be a stand-alone or a high end universal remains to be seen - I may wait to see what technolgy shift, if any, is likely to occur. And of course, it will depend on finances and the WAF. I take on board what you said about cables, but here they are like gold. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 667 Registered: Dec-04 | OK, folks, what would you consider a higher end UDP to replace my Pioneer? Audio considerations only, with a picture(for my old 46" crt), hdmi maybe for future considerations. My setup is on file, I want great 2.1, with good 5.1 as well, and something not reputed to break. As well, I will check warranty service here in Canada. I just have to think my gear should be even better, any suggestions? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2420 Registered: Feb-05 | No universal under 3k does cd right. Better off to get a good universal such as a Denon DVD2910 or Marantz DV6500 and a good dedicated cd player. |
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Daniel34 Unregistered guest | No universal player that I heard sounds a good as "decent" CDP, although I didn't try any universal players in the price range Art's mentionig. If you're thinking of spending that kind of cash on universal player, you're better off getting separates IMO. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 683 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey guys, Ive already got Rotel, PSB, H/K and interconnects, I'm looking at a good mid-hi-fi player up to and including, sacd, dvd-a. Rotel, Linn(ouch), others? Thanks again. 2 channel is very important, but must play 5 well. Still 3k, Art? |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 684 Registered: Dec-04 | Sorry, I should elaborate. Pioneer player at present, cheapo, I think. H/K avr55 as pre, Rotel 985 power amp. Psb Stratus silver in front, Psb century 200ci in the middle, Psb, alpha in rear. Stereo sound is very important, surround is used some, and video(hdmi) secondary. I really feel like I have the pieces, but the source, of course, is first. Gracias |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2421 Registered: Feb-05 | "Still 3k, Art?" Yep! Or you can spend less as I outined above. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 688 Registered: Dec-04 | Ok, then,a good dedicated CDP? I think i followed a thread on older or refurbed Rotel player a while back which had several followers. A Rotel, if good, would fill aspot nicely, any models come to mind? |