B&W and Classe
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Unregistered guest | Hi, I am looking for a new stereo set (amp + speakers). i have now listened to Classe Ca2200 and CAP2100 with B&W 803's. I also wish to listen to the same set up with B&W 805 and 803. Any suggestions anyone? I am preparred to spend some money on a nice set up but find it diff to make a choice. What is another good combination to listen to? Also why do I read so little comments on Classe? Is their something I am not aware of? |
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Anonnn Unregistered guest | Because very few people in this forum have some knowledge of high-end components. IMHO I like the sound of the McIntosh gear better than Classe and to my ears they match better with any B&W Speakers, but that is just me. If you get a chance try to audition the MA6900, my friend has one of those driving a pair of B&W 802D's and the sound is awesome! |
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Fed Up Unregistered guest | Anonn is correct. Judging by the content in most of the posts on this forum, I think most of the contributors are children. |
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Gold Member Username: Thx_3417Post Number: 1220 Registered: May-05 | McIntosh there's a name I haven't head about in few years now, do they still have any new THX products available, and there hardware cost an arm and a leg too..... |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3647 Registered: Dec-03 | M. Woudstra, You seem to be a 2 channel/stereo aficionado. I would then suggest that you listen to the Classe' CA-2200 combined with the CP-500 pre-amp mated to a pair of Martin Logan Statement E2 or the Summit. If you can arrange a comparison between the Martin Logans and the Bowers & Wilkins, it would be beneficial to your decision. The 803 is no slouch but the Martin Logan Statement is nothing short of extraordinary. Stereo nirvana! Then there's the McIntosh MC252 with the C200 mated to the same speakers. And also the Aragon 3002 (THX ultra 2 certified if you are so inclined)combined with the Aragon Stage One THX Ultra 2 processor/pre-amp or the simple Aragon 28 Mk2 (since you love stereo). Again with the same set of speakers. You might just bypass the B&W altogether  A caveat, though, the Martin Logans are a little picky on placement, but once done correctly, it is hard to turn away. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Classe's, it is just not a mass marketed audio gear. There are alot of high end audio equipment out there and not a lot of them are discussed here or any forum, there's just not a lot of owners talking about them |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3649 Registered: Dec-03 | But if you want to stick with the conventional design try the Sonus Faber Stradivari Homage with the Classe's. I'm sure your local dealer will be happy to oblige. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3650 Registered: Dec-03 | You never did specify a budget only that you want a nice system...the Statement e2 is a REALLY nice system but also the price of a small townhouse. But if we are to go near the budget comparable to the Bowers & Wilkins...I would recommend the Ascent i or the Aeon i. Again another class in itself. Same caveat as before, however the Ascent or Aeon do not come with its own team of installers and a nice young lady with a complimentary Dom Perignon and flowers just to make sure that you are happy with the speakers. |
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Unregistered guest | Annon, Berny thanks for your advice. some work needs to be done.... |
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Anonnn Unregistered guest | Berny, The stradivaries sell for $40 K a pair! Huge difference between them and the B&W 803's ! But the Cremona's are sweet for "only" $9 K M. Woudstra, As Berny said, we have no idea of what your budget is. Many options out there ! Good luck! |
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New member Username: DinyarMumbai, India India Post Number: 3 Registered: Aug-05 | I used B&W 802 ( Pre Matrix ) Speakers for 5 years, and before that the B&W DM-2. Was pretty much a B&W fan, but about a year ago tried (and loved) Sonus Faber Extremas. ( about US $ 2K pre owned on E-Bay) Very musical and put out ambience and imaging in spades ... yes More than the B&Ws. The Extremas are inefficient, but drive just about OK with my Prima Luna Provogue 2 Valve amp ( US $ 1,000). I anow get TONS pf ambience, imagining etc ... Audio Nirvana... for now ! |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 808 Registered: Jun-05 | Berny I terribly dissagree about the Martin Logans in a different class as the B&Ws,yeah they are a electrastatic hybrids,but Ive heard them on $20,000 Mark Levinston and the B&Ws and the B&W trouned them in every way you can think of and largely it wasnt because the B&Ws were better,but more because they were just totally unimpressive and lifeless Ive heard them in several different combinations at least 10 different times and they never pegged my meter,and anyone else I know into high End audio.M Woudstra dont jump into buying Martin Logan,they are by far the biggest high end speaker dissapointment I have ever heard,Where I here them at they also carry Thiel,Acoustic Energy,Magnapan,and Ariel Accoustics and everyone of them made short work of the ML,one thing that sorely sticks out to me about ML is they are extremely bright and I couldnt even listen to them for no more 10 minutes at a time and if they are bright on Mark Levingston than they are bright,and they are almost unlistenable on Classe which sounded real bright on the B&Ws to.The Martin Logan has the narrowest horrizontal sound stage I have ever heard,look into the Simimoon amps and preamps and CD players for the B&Ws they are a touch to the warm side but thet are very accurate and well tonnally balanced with some kick in the bass which you will need for the B&Ws they have great extension,but they can be very lean in the bass. |
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Fed Up Unregistered guest | Nice to see people other than the "regulars" with a different subject and whom clearly know their stuff. ahhhhh Refreshing! |
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Anonnn Unregistered guest | Guys, Truly, the McIntosh-B&W combo works like a charm, almost a perfect match. Now,I am not saying that B&W are the best speakers out there because there are so many options , but the two brands do match well indeed. Berny, With all due respect, I agree with Tawaun, ML just do not cut it for me, way too bright for my tastes. |
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Gold Member Username: Thx_3417Post Number: 1247 Registered: May-05 | $20.000 no F**king will I pay for a pair of loudspeakers, no way, sure I can get some professional Dolby processors amplifiers and loudspeakers second-hand for $20.000. Man what are you trying to do to us, $20.000.......... |
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Gold Member Username: Thx_3417Post Number: 1248 Registered: May-05 | What do you think this forum is anyway the Ritz! $20.000 |
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Anonnn Unregistered guest | Andy, With all due respect, some people buy what they like and some just what they can afford, this is a free world man or we just want to force ourselves to believe that it is anyway. BTW, the Ritz is not "the" best out there either. Cheers Mate |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 810 Registered: Jun-05 | Andy If I had $20,000 to spare and only one car payment,I would be forking it out very very quickly for some Ariel Acoutic 20Ts, and yes they are speakers,no $ 20,000 car can even compare. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 811 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah Anon,I heard the Macs a lot,infact them and Mark levinston are the most consistent amps I have heard.I heard the big Mac mono blocks on some Kef refference and it was extremely amazing everything I ever heard them on they were impressive,I hate ML they have to be terrible to make the Mark Levinston sound bad. |
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Gold Member Username: Thx_3417Post Number: 1249 Registered: May-05 | Tawaun, Sorry if that came over strongly, like to £22.000, I know where I'll be going with £22.000 straight to "future projections" that's for sure and I'm guessing there'll also be some change from it as well..... I mean just how good are, is "B&W" is there a picture, along with technical specifications on them. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 813 Registered: Jun-05 | I would show it to you Andy but I dont have your vast skills at attaching pictures to the posts,I guess im gonna have to learn that. |
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Unregistered guest | Gents, I am glad I receive such a good response. Keep it coming. My aim is to buy a system that I like (love) to listen to. For the speakers I am preparred to spend approx. USD10-12k for the amps approx. USD6-7k. Bare in mind, I live in Singapore and most of the stuff is cheaper here then in Europe. What's the choice for connectors? There is a whole array of brands out there with a huge price difference. |
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Gold Member Username: Thx_3417Post Number: 1256 Registered: May-05 | Tawaun, When you do a search for a loudspeaker amplifier or the best football team use images to find it, click on the image that is placed above at the top of the screen click on it twice, this will display the image as it is. Now if it looks big and I mean big it wont load up on when posting it, anyway so when you have selected the image and don't just look at the same size, see how many ones there are, ok now left-click on the mouse and (Save Picture As) you may what to reword the name of the image to make it easy for you. So posting the image on next to where its says (preview/post massage) is (Upload image or attachment)...click on it and it will display (Add Image or Attachment) click on (Browse) and it should bring up the display of the images, scroll down the page to select the image you'll looking for, and left click on the mouse, the image will be highlighted with an outline, then look to the right hand bottom of the screen you will see (open) left click on the mouse. The image as now been sent to (Add Image or Attachment) now left click on (Upload) this should take a few seconds if you are still waiting for one minute the image is to large and therefore will not (Upload). You can now see the word (Close) left click on the mouse, you will now see the a simple like this that means its Uploaded, now click on Preview/Post Message. It will now display Tom hanks from Apollo 13 one of my favourite films now left click on the word (Post This Message) There job done.  |
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Anonnn Unregistered guest | Andy, Check this link |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 817 Registered: Sep-04 | For something quite different, you might want to listen to a Naim system. It's not the cleanest, nor the most holographic, but it gets under your skin and just draws you into the musical performance. If you decide to listen to a Naim system let the Naim dealer guide you since you always build Naim speakers from source to speakers and this is how you would apportion your money. With Naim, the adage of 'garbage in, garbage out' is very true. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Virus5877West Lafayette, Indiana USA Post Number: 176 Registered: Apr-05 | I would have to say that between any of the B&W line and the statement e2's there is no comparison! ESL's rule! Once you hear the sound of a electostatic speaker, you will never go back to conventional box speakers. Not to trash the B&W's, they are FANTASTIC speakers, but they can't produce the sound stage and incredible transparancy of a good ESL. ...ya, ya, all you technical dorks remind me that the e2 is a hybrid...whatever! it still sounds freaking awesome! |
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Anonnnn Unregistered guest | Well, if you like them, good for you, at that price range they better perform well, now , are there better speakers out there? .....Yes, much better.....examples ...Wilson Audio, Genesis, Focal JM Lab, McIntosh just to name a couple. Note, I did not say more expensive I said "Better" |
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Anonnnnn Unregistered guest | by the way, Cyrus .... I don't even know what ESLs are, I'm just running my mouth. Could you post a link to the exact model or manufacturer you have in mind? |
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Bronze Member Username: Divin11112000Michigan Post Number: 47 Registered: Dec-04 | I was unimpressed with the ML. I don't remember what model they were. I'm pretty sure they were about 2k or so. Anyways, sitting down listening to them they sounded really good. However the dealer asked if we sit and listen to music or move around while listening (ie clean or something other then sitting). Typically we are doing something, so he said stand up. Once I did, the speakers were very unimpressive. Guess it just depends on if you sit down ALL the time your listening to your music. We decided that if we were to have gotten those home spending that kind of $ only to have the sound drop out when you stand up... not at all what we wanted. My fiencee's dad runs B&W 801's using a Marantz reciever (not sure the model). Think they sound great sitting down or standing up. That's just my experience and opinion |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 815 Registered: Jun-05 | I think he is talking about the Quads,Cyrus you are breathing to much into the box speaker thing.Their are some remarkably unboxy sounding box speakers,that is a totally untrue claims its several box speakers that rival electrostatics for soundstaging and transparentcy ,imaging,one thing I can say is Martin Logans are far from the pinnacle of non box speakers and if anyone is using them for their refferance than you have another thing comming. |
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Anonnnn Unregistered guest | Anonnnnn Stop posting as me, come man get another name ! |
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Anonnnn Unregistered guest | Anonnnnn, Stop posting as me, come on man use another name ! Man, I am gonna have to register, |
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New member Username: DarthPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-05 | ok, there, I am the former Anonnnn, geez ! |
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New member Username: DarthPost Number: 2 Registered: Aug-05 | Tawaun, he is talking about the ML's http://www.secheraudio.com.au/products/martinlogan/statemente2.htm |
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New member Username: DarthPost Number: 3 Registered: Aug-05 | Impressive, still not the best. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 819 Registered: Jun-05 | I bet they still arent that impressive,they wouldnt get my money,If I wanted a electostatic I would check out Innersound,now they are something to hear,very very impressive with some real good slam in the bass to. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3685 Registered: Dec-03 | M. Woudstra, This topic is getting off on a tangent. Would you please let us know what is available in your area? What speakers would you have access to? I am sure that they will be more than happy to oblige a potential customer specially with high-end components in mind. As far as the interconnects are concerned, again it would be more helpful if we know what is available in Singapore. I am quite sure that the proprietor of the establishment that you will be dealing with are going to be able to show you some good quality cables. A little haggling over tea perhaps and they may just throw those in as part of the deal But read up on audio cables and make up your own mind as to which ones will be of use to you. check here http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/cables.htm The Classe' is an exceptional amp and I would not suggest anything else as I have experienced the recommendation I have made above. As far as the speakers are concerned, you will be the one who is going to make the choice on which ones you will be willing to keep and love. All our suggestions to you should be treated as nothing more than conjecture at this point based on our experience, not yours. I for one, loved the Martin Logans and the Sonus Faber. All the others such as Thiel, Linns are also more than adequate for anyone with the inclination to buy them. However, we cannot espouse these choices upon you as your choices and preference will be entirely upon your ears. You will be living with your choices and it is best that it is you who will love the speakers. It does not matter that there are those who believe that there are better speakers than the Martin Logans or the Sonus Fabers, if you hate them then it is your entire right to think so. If you love them, no one here has the right to say you are wrong for the choices that you made. It is your money, it is your speakers. There are those who absoulutely hated the Cremonas and the ML Aeons, do I care? No..because I listen to them and I like them and they get to go back home and enjoy their Quads, their Stradivaris and the exquisite Amati Aniversario (although I wouldn't mind having those in my home). So it is now upon you to go out there and listen for yourself what ever it is that you may like. We can only recommend, you will be the one doing the purchasing, and of course, all our recommendation will be nothing if you can't listen to any of the mentioned speakers. Have fun while you are at it and bring the music or source material that you are familiar with. Do not let the dealer provide the listening material for they will tend to play music that will emphasize the inherent strength of th speakers and subdue the weak areas. Bring your own music and listen to those that you are most familiar with and pay attention to the detail that you have never once heard before and those that you think are missing. Take your time and enjoy the journey, you will be the happier for it. cheers |
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Gold Member Username: Thx_3417Post Number: 1259 Registered: May-05 | Holy cow those B&W where in fact awesome, design was smashing too, let my guess there expensive too, there nice. As for the Martin Logan, that's a forceful one. With that sub bass tower, there goes the neighbourhood. Ashley |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 839 Registered: Jun-05 | Well Berney for speakers of that price ultimate performance is what they are intended for if, they dont deliver in some eyes well ears they are certainly entitled for crtitism.He came here for opinions and thats what he got,if you are buying speakers of that price I would only hope he put his own opinion first.With expensive equipment like that It wont get a free pass from me if it doesent deliver the goods for my ears I will voice my opinion if you dont like it maybe you need to go to a new forum,we all are aloud to voice our opinion,at least we are not the ones selling it to him we have no money to gain fromour recomendations,from most us these are own honest opinions of the products. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3689 Registered: Dec-03 | Relax, Tawaun, I was not addressing you or your criticism. Voice your opinion, this is a forum intended for such things. I am merely trying to get back on topic. |
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Anonnn Unregistered guest | oh boy here we go...T_bonehead25 found another one to flame on careful berniemac these new comers like them up close and personal so you better get off your horse you notice dat he don't like people who cant take da critcs. and the only time that comes up is when he thinks he is being criticized. lol lighten up t-bag lol |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 851 Registered: Jun-05 | I looked over your post Berny and it was my fault missinturpitation sorry.Annon who ever you are,you are a idiot. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3693 Registered: Dec-03 | No worries, Tawaun. I like your taste in speakers although we may not have the same ears |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 852 Registered: Jun-05 | Well Berny I love Sonous Faber,so our ears cant be to far off,its always pretty cut dry why everyone who hears them loves them,even people who like a more analytical sound have been known to convert to their sweet magic. |
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M.Woudstra Unregistered guest | Thanks again for your input. I am fully aware that I am the one spending the money and hwill have to listen to what I buy. As written before I am here to receive opinions and experiences from you. I am not here to judge on you I will judge on the speakers and amps I will be listening to with me ears and with my wallet. Thanks again and please continue if there is more .... M.Woudstra |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3697 Registered: Dec-03 | M.Woudstra, Again I have to inquire...what is available in your area? And what speakers do you have access to? This is very important so we can narrow down our suggestions to what you can actually experience. |
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M.Woudstra Unregistered guest | I will certainly take on board to listen to the McIntosh. I looked at their website and it I will visit a shop. In Singapore there is about everything available what you can get under the sun. 'All' or most major brands and special niche brands have an agent here. |
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New member Username: DarthPost Number: 8 Registered: Aug-05 | M. Woudstra, If they are available in your area, I would suggest you consider the following speakers for your set up, Revel salon $15,000 Focal JM Lab Diva Utopia Be $11,500 B&W 802 D $12,000 Sonus Faber Cremona $9000 Good luck |
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Anoni Unregistered guest | yeah Vader, like you have really heard all those speakers...lol |
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Anoni Unregistered guest | I on the other hand actually own all of them |
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New member Username: DarthPost Number: 9 Registered: Aug-05 | Anoni, lol, you are funny. ok, I will give you 10 seconds of my time, I know you are just having fun and that is ok with me, however, I am almost sure that your are just a broke a s s loser who can not even afford a Durabrand "System"....no matter what you reply you know that I am right on the money. I own what I like but you own what you can afford, very little probably. See ya Mate Sorry M. Woudstra....now back on track... |
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