Archive through March 06, 2005
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1460 Registered: Aug-04 | Larry, "systems that finally sound as good as we might hope for, given the level of our financial investment." Yes, exactly, but add lots of time for research (mag reviews, forums, listening) etc. The thing I have really noticed (obviously) is the value of the surrounds: the better the quality/sound, the better the overall impression of movies and, in particular, the music. I cannot stress enough the difference I am hearing with the B&W rears. I know you and Mer have your own thoughts on this issue - I am only adding my two bob's worth because I think the importance should not be understated. So I hope you win those Orbs. Nuff said! Oh! I'll yell a happy 'Hi' to Mrs Rantz later when she's home - thanks guys. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 701 Registered: Oct-04 | My Rantz - and a happy day to you, sir! I agree that surround speakers should be as good as possible for the best effects - but there is also the WAF and overall room decor to consider, especially if your listening area must share space with the overall "living room" and its furnishings. Sigh. I once had a dedicated music room - didn't know how fortunate I was until we moved. Never had another one - but am hopeful for the future - maybe! Well, the Yamaha finally got to Los Angeles - and may be delivered to Yamaha DVD exchange place tomorrow. Then - we just wait. And wait. And wait. The Orbs may - or may not - be the answer to my dilemma: get fairly good surround and keep Mer happy with very small speakers. Can it be done? Well, I've e-mailed the chaps at Orb, and of course they claim that their liddle wonders sound as good as speakers many times their size. As I'm one who has bought both good sales lines and bad merchandise - I have guarded optimism. If I win the pair, I'll post the results of listening. If not, I may just "slop along" with the Rad-Shacks for awhile. Just thinking that it's been more than ten years now since Kathleen Battle was fired from the Met for being an utter witch. She's given concerts and made recordings - but has never set foot on an opera stage since. She's considered "poison." But it's her own fault - and very sad, as she has a wonderful voice behind that B itch exterior. Carry on. . . |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | 1959: Lou Costello comedian, dies at 52. Thus providing the correct order for those still confused by who died first, what died second and I don't know about third. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | http://www.cob.ohio-state.edu/~tomassini_1/whotext.html Well worth a read in honor of Lou. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1461 Registered: Aug-04 | Stereo is good! Yesterday I loaded the old Yammie 5 disc Cd player, switched the new 602's to 'B' speakers for stand alone "stereo" playback to begin the 'running in' process. I intended to simply enjoy the music while I worked. Though the Yammie is not as open and refined as the DVD-2900 (especially) via analogue connections, after a short time the sound enticed me from my workroom and into the lounge where I plonked myself on the edge of the coffee table (with coffee mug in hand) and proceeded to listen to this wonderful 'stereo' sound. This is basically the 'sweet spot' facing back to the toed-in 602 rears. A couple of hours later (after changing to the Denon for cd playback) I was firmly entrenched in this terrific stereo sound coming from the 602's and I was almost beginning to nudge towards Jan's stand that stereo rules - did I really say that? Anyway, I was enjoying the sound that much. A very open soundstage, decent bass, clean, crisp highs, accurate imaging and an all round wonderful sound that just got better and better as the day went on while my work was being ignored. This was a great experience and I had to take stock of what was happening. Work be darned - after a bite to eat for lunch, the 602's were relegated back to their rear surround duties and the sacd's and dvd-a's were given an equal opprtunity to impress; after all, stereo had really caught my attention (it has been quite a while since critically listening to stereo as it is usually for background) and I was getting worried that I might have to soon eat humble pie. I need not have been concerned. The hi-res surround was just - well - absolutely magic. Words cannot convey the experience - and almost the same goes for my thoughts on the terrific 602's. Now I muat catch up on work - darn it! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2855 Registered: Dec-03 | Quad ESL 63. The dream becomes reality. Amazing. Something else. Wonderful. It was the right thing to do. They exceed all expectation. More later. 2c, Thanks for comments. Will write something more at weekend. Ghia, Everything you wrote about Magnepans applies. Wonder how they compare. MR, Good to hear the B&Ws make you waver on the stereo question, too. If I had to choose my new speakers in stereo only, or anything else I have ever heard for surround, it would be no contest. How the Quads work as mains, I will investigate eventually. But it seems like a small question, now; strangely irrelevant. Strewth, the detail, the clarity. Etc. etc. Etc. etc. They are indeed in a different league from any other speaker I have heard, except possibly the Quad ESL 57, and the memory fades after 25 years. "Just as good" at least. Surely. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1463 Registered: Aug-04 | John So pleased about your Quads - exceeding expectations is a real bonus - I can imagine the big grin on your face. Look forward to your more detailed review. The 602's did not make me waver - really - the stereo sounds great admittedly, but the good surround discs are way in front. Simply Marvellous! And it can only get better! Later. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1464 Registered: Aug-04 | John, I don't know if you have read this - I briefly scanned the first few paragraphs - no time. But might interest you. http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/416/ |
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Bronze Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 100 Registered: Jan-05 | JohnA Congrats on the Quads! Like 2C, I like the retro look of them. I bet they sound great too! Everything you wrote about Magnepans applies. Wonder how they compare. I'm afraid that discovery would have to be made on your dime! lol. I'm through with speaker buying - at least until I sell the MA's and Spendors - which are slowly becoming an albatross. ;-) |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 702 Registered: Oct-04 | John A. - good show! I'm sure you'll get years of wonderful sound from the Quads! Looking forward to the day when you get your final music setup finished in your "new" house, wherever that might be. Hopefully, with a dedicated music room? SM - Mournful news from you, my friend! I thought you had buyers for your speakers? guess not - but we're all pulling for you to finalize the deals and get on with your Maggie-life! My Yammie is in the - uh - Yammie shop out in the LA area - was delivered this ayem. They say they'll ship out whatever they return to me within five days. Hope it's a new deck - but we'll just have to wait. Sigh. You guyz-n-gal will love this! My nutzy friend in LA found the package of speaker wires that he swore he sent to me. Found them under the front seat of his car. Sigh. Offered to send them on to me for testing, but I told him that really I wasn't in the mood. So maybe he'll just keep them. In his car? Where they do a lot of good! (grin) More anon. . . |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2856 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks for the congrats, MR, GC/SM, Larry. It is a new world. Thanks for the link to the review, MR. Yes, I had already read that, twice. It is very good and was part of my decision, once I had cut through the journalism. No offence, Larry, but I think you are one of the good ones. For example, that "Stereophile" review kicks off with distinction which I do not recognise, and comes close to a central part of the topic of this thread: Quad equipment is not designed primarily for audiophiles, but for serious-music (call that "classical") listeners who play records more for musical enjoyment than for the sound Now - what, please, is an "Audiophile" in this sense?! What is he/she looking for in HiFi? I wrote to Jan, whom I thank for input on this, on-line and off. "I have a new copy of the original manual - it is clear on these issues. It is clear on everything. Stands may be good; it says so. I shall take it a step at a time. They sound awesome and I propose just to listen to music for a while, suspending compulsive dissatisfaction. It will not be difficult! "The manual is clear that the amp must be capable of surviving a short circuit at the output stage. Also about the volume issue. "I must say, Jan, I had not thought about getting used ESL 63s until you pointed out the [advantages]. I am so glad I did. I have the real thing, not an "update". They really are wonderful. It really is as if you are listening to the programme itself- instruments, voices, even the radio news is transformed..." The manual also has things to say about positioning, rooms, and speaker cables. I just plugged them in and bingo; the startling impression of hearing the original sound. I will get around to moving them around a bit, and trying stands, eventually. And, just as Ghia said about Magenpans, this legendary stringent requirement for one small "sweet spot" is a load of tosh - they sound brilliant anywhere in the room. Even from the nest room you can hear the difference. It would be impossible to recommend these speakers too highly. Their considerable reputation is entirely justified, in my estimation. BTW I got a good deal from a very professional audio trading company; one-year warranty; replacement manual; they even delivered. I do not mind paying such middle-men; they do a good job. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2857 Registered: Dec-03 | A few typos there, sorry. Friends, you catch my drift! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1465 Registered: Aug-04 | John A Excellent stuff my friend. You seem as satisfied as I - and that is saying something. Although we may have entirely different sound to suit our listening needs, the joy that come from knowing one has made the right decisions -especially when they are costly ones - cannot be overstated. Enjoy the music - Oh, and what does Mrs A think of the Quads? |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2257 Registered: Dec-03 | Good stuff John and I'm very very glad you now have the speakers you love! I think I've heard that somewhere before! "get the speakers you really really want then the electronics to accompany them" I recently sold my harman kardon reciever and those speakers that larry was looking at "the jmlabs" to finance my latest purchase an antique sound labs 300b 8watt a channel amp and it's georgous sounding not to mention looking! (at least I think so)  |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2258 Registered: Dec-03 | Congrats to yourself there mr rantz as well! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1466 Registered: Aug-04 | And to you to Kegger my friend. You sure are building quite a collection there. I can't imagine all the different sounds but I would surely like to hear them. Keep on keeping on! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 887 Registered: Dec-03 | Enjoy the music John! My best regards to you and the family. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 101 Registered: Jan-05 | LR, SM - Mournful news from you, my friend! I thought you had buyers for your speakers? guess not - but we're all pulling for you to finalize the deals and get on with your Maggie-life! Well, as I mentioned, the MA center speaker did sell to a legitimate buyer. The GR10 buyer turned out to be someone trying to scam me by sending me a $5800 check instead of $800 and then I could Western Union him the excess. As for the Spendors, well, the guy I thought was going to buy them backed out because his wife wouldn't let him get a black finish. What's worse? Women who can't get past the WAF or the men too spineless to make their own decisions?  |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 102 Registered: Jan-05 | JohnA, Great news from you! Very interesting. It is pretty amazing to get that level of satisfaction - the kind where you know your listening experience has been transformed in a way you imagined but had yet to experience. As I mentioned to Larry in email, I rearranged my weekend to shorten an out of town trip into a day trip instead of an overnighter. Then, on Sunday, I listened to the music, non-stop, for over 12 hours. The Maggies have more hours on them from a weekend of listening than the Spendors had in the 3 weeks or so that I had them. You didn't hear about me re-arranging travel plans to accommodate them, did you? ;-) The MMG's clearly offer a listening experience I didn't get from the MA, Spendors or B&W's - despite those speakers costing 2-3 times more. Will these be the last speakers I ever buy? There's a strong possibility of that. But, I know that my listening experience doesn't have the breadth or depth of many here on this forum so maybe curiosity will get the best of me down the road. But, I'm pretty sure I don't think I'll ever go back to the standard box speaker. Might look into either the bigger Maggies or seeing what the Quads are about. Well, good day and good listening to everyone! |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 103 Registered: Jan-05 | Speaking of satisfaction....I purchased a new rug for the dining room. The cats said they had always dreamed of a rug like this but had yet to experience one. Oh, the kilims were ok but real wool was in their dreams. They spent all evening, alternating between lounging on it and rolling around on it. Lar, I think I figured out a new furniture arrangement plan that will allow me to make more room for the Maggies without having to sell the entertainment center or splurge on a flat panel TV. I was able to rework the furniture arrangement in my bedroom to make room for the entertainment center and TV. Just need to get a man to come over and help me move it. ;-) The bedroom layout works much better now and makes it seem bigger, even once the TV is moved in there. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 703 Registered: Oct-04 | John A. - SO glad you're deep into the sound of the Quads! And you, sir, hit on one of the important parts of my own listening situation: I spend a lot of time here in the den, on the computer, and thus have to listen to the stereo "long-distance." The B&Ws sound very good, even in here - let alone in the so-called "sweet spot." Sort of a "house full of sound," if you catch my drift. The subwoofer has added measureable amounts of sound-pleasure in that respect. Kegger: Good grief! And I thought I was in bad shape with a back-bending NAD! A 300-pound amp?!? Where do you put it - I know, I know - "anywhere it wants to go." (grin) Congrats on the speaker/amp sales - you CAN have too much audio stuff, you know! SM: Wellll - we're still hoping that you get some "real" buyers - and soon! I know I had to leave audiogon and go with eBay to sell the Polks, so maybe the MAs would do better there? Now - (blush) - as to the WAF and wives who won't let their husbands buy BBS (big, black speakers), uh, put me in that camp. Uh, ahem, urrrrr, Mer won't let me buy BBS either - so if anybody out there has an extra spine to offer. . . (grin) At least Mer has come around to liking the B&Ws, which she insists on calling "R-1, D-1s" Sigh. Guess they might be "star-warry" to some, but to me they are just plain wonderful. The subwoofer, on the other hand, does look like a pregnant crab! (double grin) Just want you to know that, after all your mewing and purring about the MMGs, I'm going to trek down to the gnarly-sound-emporium and take a listen to their Maggies. Not yours, but some that are, I think, called 1.6 or the likes. Nearly 6 feet tall. but I'll report on their sound, and whether they'd make nice extension speakers for the bathroom! (grin) More anon. . . |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 704 Registered: Oct-04 | SM - paths crossed again. Waydaminut, waydaminut! Uh, you're moving your entertainment center to the bedroom, with the TV? And than what are you going to use for equipment rack with the Maggies? 'splain that one, pleez!! Oh, yes - as to moving the stuff - see, men ARE good for a few things! (double grin) spineless though we may be (soft chuckle) |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 705 Registered: Oct-04 | My Rantz: We - all of us - need a picture of your surround set-up, please! John A. - same thing. SM - same thing. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 104 Registered: Jan-05 | Lar, LOL! I hoped the "spineless" comment would be taken in jest as it was meant. No offense to men or wives, just a little jibbing. I have a little bit of built-in WAF myself. Trying to find a nice balance between aesthetics and great sound. For instance, the 6 foot Maggies might be a little too much for me. lol. Larry, I think the 1.6 are actually only about 5ft tall. They go lower than my Maggies but have the same range on the high end. The "entertainment center" is actually a big box built for TV flanked by bookcases. The bookcases will stay in the living room but will be pushed together and the audio equipment will stay there. Just the TV box will be moved. That will free up about 4' space on that short wall so the Maggies will have more breathing room. This will work out ok. When I have the occasional visitors over we seldom watch TV. Usually, it is dinner, conversation and, if they are so inclined, music. The bedroom layout is much more functional now. My bedroom is long and narrow 12x20 and the furniture arrangement had been awkward. Last night around 11p, I had an epiphany about what to do and rearranged the furniture 'til midnite. I was very pleased with how much it opened up the bedroom's floor space and, adding the TV box won't diminish it. In addition to moving the TV box, I will need a brave man to go under the house to pull the cable to the TV's new location too. Hmmm... may have to give Mr B a call. We did part on friendly terms so I think he'll be open to helping out. Ok, gotta go do some work. Glad to see everyone's sound systems are evolving to euphoric levels! :-) |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 105 Registered: Jan-05 | Clarification on the rug thing (as if anyone is interested). I think the kilims are wool but they have a rough surface. The new rug is a cotton/wool blend and is very soft. The cats love it. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 706 Registered: Oct-04 | SM - wow! Epiphany, euphoria - heck, before you know it you will have arrived in sound-Nirvana, fer shore! Have a wunnerful old retired CIA chap-friend who insists on pronouncing the word EPP'-uh-fanny. Of course he knows the difference - just likes the sound of it, I guess! Go figger. . . Hey - the furniture dis and re-placements sound like a good solution! And Jenny - if you're gonna keep on doin' stuff like this, you're gonna have to learn how to deal with crawl-spaces! (grin) Know what you mean about cats and rugs. When we had cats - and a wunnerful thick wool area rug in the dining room - Mer and I had to alternate vacuum and sticky tape just to be able to see the rug-pattern! Cat hair - about a half-inch thick! And my, how they did love that rug! Now that we have neither rug nor kitties - well, we miss both, I guess. . . Now - ev-body - let's get those pics!!!!! |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 707 Registered: Oct-04 | SM - PS - "if" you're looking into flat-panel TVs, may I humbly suggest Dell - yes, the computer-maker. They've got stunning LCD TVs for much less than other companies. I've seen them, and love them.\ Of course, you can only get LCDs up to about 32 inches - so any larger an you have to shift to plasma or something else like that. My personal opinion - LCDs. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1467 Registered: Aug-04 | Oh woman of many names, It's great that U2 have found such satisfaction from your new Magnepans as do your cats with the rug. "What's worse? Women who can't get past the WAF or the men too spineless to make their own decisions?" Where were you when we guys were looking for wives? LOL! Larry Hi to you and Mer. More pics - I dunno! For our surround set up I might need a panaoramic camera LOL! Will see what I can do maybe . . . I've been reading the overnight (here) posts and it seems all of us are quite content with our recent purchases. Come on Jan - surprise us LOL! Oh! And Larry - that's a model number on Keggers new amp, not its weight! A 300lb amp? It's about 8 am, Mrs Rantz is stirring, the birds are chirping, this 5th day of autumn promises warmth and sunshine and breakfast is now on mind as we prepare for another weekend in paradise. All is good! Okay, I'll give you a break. (grin) |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 889 Registered: Dec-03 | Digital pictures of surround set-ups????????? Need I remind you that men with spines and tubed stereo don't have digital cameras, they have 35mm SLR's. LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1468 Registered: Aug-04 | Need I remind you that men with spines and tubed stereo don't have digital cameras, because caves don't have electric power for modern tech. Tubed stereo - now isn't that muzak, Rick? [LOL!] |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 106 Registered: Jan-05 | MR, I'm figuring out that I'm an unusual woman to say the least. lol Rick, I thought cavemen drew pictures on the wall. Not sure how you could transmit that via internet. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Sorry, I try to keep the suprises down to a minimum now days. The same system keeps on working and satisfying so there is little that is going to change - hopefully. The Philips CD player has been a bit "hinky" lately, so I thought it might be time to investigate the benefits of investing in replacement instead of repair. I stopped to listen to two CD players at the local Linn dealer. I chose the middle of the day in the middle of the week so I wouldn't be asking anyone to give time to my request beyond mere courtesy. There were only a few thousand dollars worth of gear in the display system so I guess it didn't demand enough set up in this shop to demonstrate the components to their best advantage. When I intimated to the salesperson this particular system, while evincing tonal purity and sufficent musical capability to discern an audible difference between the two players, manifested no discernable soundstage, he rejoined, "Probably not. Maybe if we moved the speakers a bit ..." When he refrained from moving the speakers I submitted it was unfeasible to make a determination which piece of gear would best suit my needs if neither could wheedle a presentation beyond the five foot span between the speakers nor more than two feet in apparent depth. He absolved his inaction by rationalizing that since the ceiling was so high (12 ft.) it was of no real consequence how the speakers were positioned. His suggested path of action to me was to decide based on which player sounded "warmer" to me. "Warmer" seemed to be the only word he knew to use. The less expensive player, the amplifier and the cables were all defended and defined as being "warmer"; and, therefore, soundstaging was not a reasonable expectation. So you see, Larry, stereo-mopes exist everywhere. My money has been going into the house and all new appliances this past year. All evidence would indicate this is a task which needs to be repeated every twenty to twenty five years. It is generally unwise to wait until the washer takes its final breath while full of water and soapy clothes. But wait is what I've done with the washer, the water heater and the dishwasher. Unless there is controversy or excitement in the choice of gas or electric water heater, I don't have much to report. For the record I did choose a gas unit with 40 gallon capacity deciding to bypass the on demand unit of much higher cost. Diminishing returns you know. The range and oven are the next purchases and then the flooring to clean up the mess the water heater made when it disposed itself of its contents at 1:00 AM. I'm hoping the furnace can go another five years. The rotation of the globe has brought spring like temperatures to Dallas. The temperatures have been in the 60's during the day. The early daffodils and jonquils have come out (along with the weeds in my neighbor's lawn), so warm weather isn't far off. It will be time to plant spring tomatoes in a few weeks - maybe. It's has been incredibly wet and cloudy the past two to three weeks; Dallas has had twice our normal rain fall for the year so far. The days are very somber and dreary with an almost constant drizzle. I have little to complain about while parts of the US are still receiving large amounts of snow; but I would certainly enjoy a bit of sunshine for more than a few hours in the afternoon. Right now I'll even take sunshine to a new CD player. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | From another thread on the Home audio portion of the forum: "yes im loking at buying a legacy 800 watt amp 2 and 4 ohms model number LA590. and i have 2 sony xplode 10" subs they are 400 watts each i dont know what the rms are on them they are in a big ol box and i dont fel like taking them out but i went on a web site and saw the ones like mine and it said it was 400 watts so im guessin that means the rms rating is about 200 correct? i also want 2 know if this amp that i want 2 buy is a good amp for my subs the specs on the amp are 2x400 watts output 1x 800 watts bridged output 800 watts total power the last amp i had was a clarion apa 4203 and it just burned up on me recently i took it apart and it had a burn mark on the board also i talked 2 a guy and he said that it meant my amp was overheating but im also guessing if the amp was 2 little 4 the speakers and it worked the amp 2 hard is that posible? but i had 2 fans on it i dont know the wattage of the clarion for as it didnt say on it so i need some advice on what 2 do" Ahh, youth! Ahh, punctuation!!! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 890 Registered: Dec-03 | TONGA......TUBE......TONGA hammer, hammer, chisel, chip..........GRUNT! |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 708 Registered: Oct-04 | MR - OOPS! (blush) I speed-read Kegger's posting, and of course read "300b" as "300 lb" whoosh! A 300-pound amp? Didn't stop to think about it, just got scared! (double grin) Thanks. . . Jan V. - I'm still trying to figure out what the heck the guy in your second posting was trying to say! (grin) Sure am glad I don't have to talk with him, 'cause it would surely be a one-way conversation! sigh. . . As to sunshine vs. a new CD player - well, uh, ahem, ummmm, ah, "I'm working on it - give me a minute, OK?" Uh. . . . . . . Spent this evening working as a volunteer bartender and food-pusher at the Ahht Leeg where Mer slaves away twice a week. Sigh. Bunch of over-rich swells coming through to ogle the artwork and get as much freebie stuff as possible. It became a game with me after awhile. Was called "wine boy," and "hey, you," and I don't know how many other demeaning names. After all, I WAS the servant, wasn't I? Yep. Got reinforcement for my general feeling that the super-rich have little else but their money in life, and use that as a weapon to put down those of us who, for whatever reason, do not share their good fortune. I finally got into it with a drunken dowager who spied a particular bottle of white wine in the cooler, and wanted me to pour her some. I said fine, and proceeded to open the bottle. Whereupon she asked if I knew about the wine - it was an obscure label from New Zealand. I allowed as how I did not know it, and she said: "what, you've never been to New Zealand?" I replied, "No missus, I'm a simple man, and live out near the swamp all my life, so I don't know about these things. I only pour what y'all ask me for." Well, she wasn't about to let it go, and berated me for not knowing how to judge wine. (by this time I was laughing inside, and beginning to enjoy the ride) "Missus," I said, "I jest know that it's white, and cold, and that's all they're paying me to know." "Well," she huffed, "let me give you a lesson!" By now a small crowd had gathered around us, and I was going to play this for everything I had. "I'd surely 'preciate that, missus," I said, as she moved around to the side of the table. She began to swirl the wine around in the glass (plastic party glass) and allowed as how she couldn't "really" teach me without crystal. But she continued by covering the glass with her hand, and then telling me to move closer to her. I complied. She then lifted her hand from the glass, and put the glass under my nose. "Well, what do you smell?" I shook my head, and responded with all the humility I could muster. "White wine." "That's IT?!?" she said, incredulously. "Yes, missus, white wine it is, for sure! But wait, maybe there's something else, but I just can't figger it out." By now she was exasperated, and stuck the glass under my nose again. "Try again," she said. I did a 10-count with the sort of control that would make a patiently-stalking Green Beret proud, then actually shouted: "Pear! I smell pear! And maybe some apple! Oh, I see what you're meaning, missus! Thank you so much!" Secure in herself, and that she had taught a mere "wine boy" something, the dowager held out her glass. "Pour some more," she ordered. I did. As she walked away with nose pointed skyward, one of the sculpture teachers who had been watching the spectacle from the sideline came over and just said: "Great act." We both doubled up laughing. . . end of story. Now I's gonna go tah bed. G-nite y'all. . . |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 107 Registered: Jan-05 | LOL! That's funny, Lar. Mingus, Maggie, aaahhhhh...... |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Pssst, Larry. The "300b" refers to the large triode output tubes in the amplifier. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 429 Registered: Mar-04 | Kegger lugging a 300 lb amp, Larry that would be an image to see eh? My Rantz, great stuff, funny stuff. "Where were you when we guys were looking for wives? LOL!" My guess is you did just fine SM, I can see it now..."former BF, can you come over on Saturday? I just need to move some cable." Yeah, that'll work. Jan, with 14 inches of snow on the ground here, and more expected early next week, your talk of early daffodils and jonquils leaves me kind of blue. Although I will be visiting the fun-filled cities of Houston, Austin, and San Antonio later this month. Hide the women and farm animals!! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2858 Registered: Dec-03 | Sorry I do not have a camera here right now. MR, Thank you - I think Quad ESL speakers in our small sitting room are testing even my WAF, which is larger than most. They do dominate the room, rather as if two scaled-down monoliths from "2001" have appeared. Now I think of it, they do bring messages from another world, too. That of music. Jeez, that's pretentious. The new version, the Quad 988, has various choices of cover with fancy patterns and tasteful colours.. Ours are bog-standard teak with plain dark brown ("mocha"?) cloth. They look pretty beautiful to me, but I am in love. But look, guys, it is the sound! Mrs A and I had a conversation, after listening to "Hello Children everywhere" Vol 2. Mrs A's first hearing of the speakers was their performance of Charlie Drake's "Hello My Darlings". Completely incredible. Conversation roughy as follows. "Well, what do you think?" "Can we have the next track?" "Yes, of course" [Repeat the above many times] "Well?" "I am not going to comment on the sound" "Why is that?" "If I did, I would have to change my position, which was that 'they are your well-deserved personal indulgence; I doubt I shall notice the difference; but go ahead, you've always wanted them" "No you don't have to change your position - just say they is not much difference" "I don't lie". "Glass of wine?" "Yes please. But how did you get out of the seat and play/sing like that, while I had my eyes closed? I heard you!" "No, it was on the recording". "Yes, I suppose it must have been. Everything sounds like you really are there, listening to the real thing". "So what do you think of them?" "They're big" "Yes, they're big". "Could we just have the next three tracks?" "No problem". "Just to be sure?" "Yes, just to be sure" "Cheers". "Cheers". |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1469 Registered: Aug-04 | Larry - "ssst, Larry. The "300b" refers to the large triode output tubes in the amplifier. " I stand corrected. I assumed it was a model number. I shouda known it was the triode tubes. What are . . . ? Thanks for that Jan and the story about your appliance relplacements etc. Very responsible! Sem Yep, I did just as fine as can be! John A I'll bet you and Mrs A are still listening or still drinking? Cheers backatcha both. Rick, Those tubes won't take too much chiseling you know! SM I think we all had that figured a while back - unusual, but in a nice way. Went out and bought stands for the 602's today. Spent afternoon rearranging furniture, grunting, swearing and then turned to the assembly instructions for the stands - more grunting and swearing. Listened to a couple of hi-res surround discs to test the repositioning and all seems very sweet. Dinner is ready, wife is calling, and we're about to eat and watch "Collaterall" - and maybe find out how to get some. (grin) Later. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2263 Registered: Dec-03 | Yes larry sorry for not straightening that out. here's a 300B tube!  |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2264 Registered: Dec-03 | Yoh My Rantz saw Collaterall, liked it vey much I hope you enjoy! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 891 Registered: Dec-03 | BIG tuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuUBE! |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 709 Registered: Oct-04 | To all: (blush) welll, uh, I guess I'll walk around with a very red face for a long time, eh? I promise that, from now on, I will read Kegger's postings very slowly, and carefully! Sigh. . . 300b is a tube, not the weight. 300b is a tube, not the weight. 300b is a tube, not the weight, 300b is a tube, not the weight. Got it. . . I still like it better if Kegger's amp really does weight 300 pounds! Too bad. . . Feel like I weigh 300 this ayem - should'ah taken some Bufferin before bedtime last night, after the all-evening wine-and-food-serving ordeal. I especially liked the guys who just came up to the table, snapped their fingers at me, and pointed to one of the wine bottles. How many times can you smile, say "yes sir, right away, sir" and pour into the glass and not all over the mope! (grin) When we got home and Mer and I had talked about our collective experiences with the rich/rude, she said: "just think of how a black man would have felt in your position?" Yeah. . .many of them must feel that way every day. Do you know how loud a finger-snap is? Hmmm. . . John A. - sounds like you have the perfect English gentlewoman for a wife, sir. And long may your Quads give you rapture. Or close to it. . . Cheers. Cheers. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 710 Registered: Oct-04 | Kegger: OK - went back and CAREFULLY re-read your posting with the amp-picture. Did I read correctly? All that for - what? - 8 (eight) watts a channel? Sure you didn't mean 80 (eighty)? Eight watts? That's IT? Sorry, but I fail to understand what kind of sound you might expect from such a low-power amp! I'm sure you will correct and educate me on this, so fire when ready, but I'm an easy target! (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2859 Registered: Dec-03 |  Photo taken from Quad ESL 63 Reviews Ours are possible walnut or similar hard wood, not teak, I think. They are very handsome. 92.5 high, 66 cm wide; roughly 3 ft by 2 ft. I looked for a place to post under "Speakers" but I do not know where to start. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2860 Registered: Dec-03 | From The Trading Station. This is not an advertisement. I have no connection, except as a satisfied customer. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2269 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry "Kegger: OK - went back and CAREFULLY re-read your posting with the amp-picture. Did I read correctly? All that for - what? - 8 (eight) watts a channel? Sure you didn't mean 80 (eighty)? Eight watts? That's IT? Sorry, but I fail to understand what kind of sound you might expect from such a low-power amp! I'm sure you will correct and educate me on this, so fire when ready, but I'm an easy target! (grin)" No you read it right 8 watts and keep in mind I like it pretty loud sometimes. You need to bo back to that chart Jan and I discussed earlier on speaker efficency. The 2 pairs of speakers I will use with that amp are 96 and 98db efficency. Most speakers "for sake of arguement" are around 90db! So here is an example of what 8watts can do for a 90db speaker and a 98db speaker. 1 watt = 98db output on one and 90db on the other 2 watts = 101db and 93 4 watts = 104db and 96 8 watts = 107db and 99 Ok now I will keep going for the 90db speaker and you will see how much more power it takes to get minimal volume change. "as the power has to double for every 3db" 16 watts = 102 32 watts = 105 64 watts = 108 So if you want to go up another 3db on the 90db speaker you need 128 watts. So if you wanted to have 4db more volume then me with my 8watt amp you would need 128watts! Did I make sense with that and easy to follow? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Larry - "Do you know how loud a finger-snap is?" When I worked at the Dallas Theater Center as the Master Electrician, I wasn't always wearing my finest clothes to crawl along the catwalk. The technical staff was told we were not to be seen by the audience members because the board of directors (generally the rich/rude crowd) felt it would "disturb" the sense of magic they wanted the theater experience to have. Made all of us feel real good too. John - "I looked for a place to post under 'Speakers' but I do not know where to start." How about under, "Nyah, Nyah - lookie what I have". |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Since they're monoblocks, I guess these might satisfy your desires, Larry. 316 lbs. per pair. Kegger, you'd better start searching eBay for the used set. http://stereophile.com/amplificationreviews/704wavac/index3.html http://stereophile.com/amplificationreviews/704wavac/ |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 2273 Registered: Dec-03 | Wow what an amp Jan! If you have that kind of cash that would be awsome! |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 713 Registered: Oct-04 | Kegger: Yep - makes sense the way you write it, but I guess I never stopped to consider carefully all of the sound-figures. So - my 100 wpc amp will only play marginally louder than your 8 wpc amp, if I'm reading you right. So why the need for all my power - to take care of the sudden volume changes in, say, an explosion? Take care of such things as clipping, I guess. thanks, Kegger - I may never understand all of this, but it helps clear away some of the cobwebs, fer shore! Jan V. - yes, I've been among the "invisible ones" many, many times. Interesting, isn't it, that the "rich/rude" rule the world? Hmm. . . As to the amps - yes! - that's what I had in my mind after looking at Kegger's, uh, "masterpiece!" Weightlifting, Kegman style! "Tote that barge - lift that bale!" John A. - I've never heard you gush like this, sir. Are you dipping a bit too deep into the Stout? Perhaps a mis-measurement in the gin-n-bitters? Noooooo - the siren call of Quad has engulfed you, and your sensory overload is rather evident. Calm, sir, calm! (grin) More anon. . . guests tonight, so away to slow-baked salmon with dill-butter, green beans with toasted pine nuts, some rice (brown,basmati,red and wild) with a light touch of curry, sliced tomatoes, hearts of palm and capers over a Boston lettuce base, and some wine-poached pears with a brown sugar-walnut-cinnamon glaze. Hungry, anyone? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | "Weightlifting, Kegman style! " In the early '80's, the shop I worked at sold Kerry VonErich a HiFi. Kerry was a professional wrestler and had muscles where even the other wrestlers didn't know they had muscles. We always joked the Nakamichi Dragon, a McIntosh pre amp and 250 watt Mac power amp along with a pair of Klipschorns amounted to Kerry VonErich's Walkman. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 108 Registered: Jan-05 | LOL! Never heard of Kerry VonErich but the custom walkman image is very vivid! I once sold 10 cd's to another wrestler, Ric Flair. He came into the record store I was managing. If you've seen Ric Flair you know he's got old school muscularity and long platinum blonde hair. It was a Sunday. Instead of wearing wrestling tights and a blo ody face, he had on a designer suit. Had a small bandage on one eyebrow. Carrying a baby girl in a frilly dress on one arm and a pink diaper bag on the other. lol. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Flair and the VonErichs used to have regular dust ups. However the real villains for the VonErich brothers were the FreeBirds from Louisiana. They represented real Southern Scum. Kerry VonErich made Ric Flair look small. Kerry was the one of the sons of Fritz VonErich who was a bad guy when I was growing up in Southern Illinois. Goose stepper and N@zi salute even though he had fought in the Second World War for the Americans. When I got to Dallas, he and his sons were local heroes. The VonErichs always fought the clean fight down here. Two of the VonErich sons committed suicide (Kerry and Kyle) and another died while on tour in Japan. Coincidentally I happened to be hospitalized in Dallas at the same time for the same problem that killed David VonErich. The remaining son, Kevin, lost everything to a louse of a promoter who took the VonErich name and screwed the family while getting rich himself. Overall a very sad story with lots of moral implications. Greek tragedy in tights. I always thought live theatre should be more like pro wrestling. When the bad guy comes on stage people should stand up and boo and throw stuff. Instead in Dallas they sit there politely with the same reaction to most everything. Pro 'rasslin' is gone from Dallas now. Too bad. There was great entertainment to be had watching "Professional Wrestling from the Sportatorium" on Sunday morning and then following that up with Earnest Angeley who began every broadcast with, "AND A BIG HELLO IN JESUS' NAME!", while sappy music played in the background. Mayhem and violence at 9 A.M. and faith healing and Jesus at 10. It was a great way to start the day. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 109 Registered: Jan-05 | Great story, Jan! Gives me a new perspective on pro-wrestling. I don't follow it but I can tell the new stuff isn't nearly as entertaining or charismatic as the original 'rasslin'. I won't draw any parellels of this to the audio world. ahem...lol. Instead in Dallas they sit there politely with the same reaction to most everything. Same here in Charlotte. Speaking of B&O (I'm a few days behind here), I just found out that I can use my American Express Rewards points to get a "free" B&O home theater setup. Includes the following features: The 42" plasma TV offers a unique true-to-life experience that integrates both your audio and video sources together in one unit. Other features include a built-in DolbyDigital and DTSdecoder, anti-reflection coated contrast screen, and automatic picture control sensors which monitor the amount of light in the room to adjust brightness, color and contrast. The loudspeakers are crafted in anodized aluminum with acoustic lenses that rest gracefully on a circular structure. For superior sound, the package features loudspeakers with a 3" mid-range driver, 4-way active technology with 4 ICEpower amplifiers, a 6-1/2" upper bass driver, and a long-throw 15" lower bass driver. Plasma - 42" x W 45-3/10" H x 6-7/10" D Loudspeakers - 19-1/10" W x 37-4/5" H Reward Code RY1601 It only takes 4,000,000 points to get it. I'm only 3,978,626 points away. Think about that. Each "rewards point" represents $1 spent on your Amex card. You'd have to spend $4 million to get this B&O for free. Hmmmm.... |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 894 Registered: Dec-03 | Can we get an AMEN? |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 110 Registered: Jan-05 | AMEN, Brother Rick! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | AND A BIG GOODNIGHT IN JESUS NAME!!! |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 111 Registered: Jan-05 | Jesus....just listening to some internet radio and hearing some Miles I've never heard before: "Miles Runs the Voodoo Down" I like. I buy. Amen. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2861 Registered: Dec-03 | <gush> God, they are wonderful speakers. Our room is far too small but they still sound fabulous. We even watched a movie with them last night The Bourne Supremacy. 14" TV. 60" main speakers (two). Perfect centre channel, from anywhere in the room, with no physical centre speaker. All centre-stage dialogue as clear as day, and there is a lot of mumbling in that film. No need for a centre speaker, nor a sub. Computer speakers used for surrounds. 4.0 surround sound. Marvellous. </gush> Jan, "How about under, "Nyah, Nyah - lookie what I have"." Cough. Thanks, but not entirely my style, old chap. File under "Hubris". It would be tempting fate. As my grandmother always said; "Pride goeth before a fall". Nobody does it better, Makes you feel sad for all the rest... |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 112 Registered: Jan-05 | So, Larry (the man of mysterious glops and tweaks) sent me an email warning me of a potential snake-oil pit regarding a speaker cable I'm contemplating purchasing. I'm throwing it out for all the dogs to chew on. Paul Speltz Anti-Cable Review Paul Speltz Anti-Cable So, whaddya think? Home Depot copper wire with a fancy coating? Or a giant killer? |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 113 Registered: Jan-05 | Quads. Amen. Maggies. Amen. McIntosh. Amen. Tube amps. Amen. Kimber Kable. Amen. B&W. Amen. Spendors. For sale. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 714 Registered: Oct-04 | Well, gang, we've lost John A. Sigh. Alas, poor John, we never knew him. . . (sob) OK - I've read, re-read, and re-re-read the stuff about SM's "Speltz anti-cables." Now I've spent a ton of time (wasted) reviewing and auditioning cables - so perhaps I'm a bit jaded here - BUT - this would seem to me - IMHO - to be one of the gentler scams I've run up against. Unless some of you with more "expertness" than I have can indicate to me how these differ from HD 12AWG solid-core wire, I'll have to say "stay away from these." But, with my (un)usual open mind, I'm going over to HD this week, buy some of their good-quality 12AWG solid-core wire, bring it home, hook it up, and see,uh, rather Hear what diff-runces there may be. I need some wire for occasional home-repair work, anyway, so it won't be wasted money. SM - we're all finger-crossing and hoping for quick sale of your speakers. If you and John A. (the late, departed, mesmerized, sound-swamped, Quad-zonked John A.) are getting such overwhelming pleasure from your planar-type speakers, there must be something to them! And we mere cones-in-box speaker folk must suffer whilst hearing of your rapture. Sigh. Kegger: I want a picture of you standing next to that BIG-TUBE amp of yours. I still don't believe it is not a 300-pounder! A pic, please, sir! New upscale grocery opening this weekend, so am away to soothe my savage cravings for good things edible. More anon. . . |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 715 Registered: Oct-04 | Research report: Well, gang, been doing a lot of Online research on this "anti-cable" stuff. Finally came up with some answers, if they help. Seems that the good Mr. Speltz is quite open with his answers to some e-mails - such as one man who asked just what Speltz is selling. His answer: "12-gauge magnet wire with connectors." That's it. Now - ev-body: How different is magnet wire from bulk wire? I suppose there must be more copper purity? Maybe? Anyway - there are a lot of satisfied customers with this guy, so there is either something to his claims, or there are a lot of people who "think" they're hearing "better" sound from those wires! All input helpful to both me and SM!!! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2863 Registered: Dec-03 | Not quite lost. I have some things to say. The Quad Electrostatic Loudspeaker 63 has caused me to revise some views I have posted in this forum. More of this anon. Meanwhile, concerning cables, from the "Instruction Book". Audio Input Input is via 4 mm sockets/binding posts. For runs of up to 10 metres 24/0.2 mm cable with a rating of 6 amps or its equivalent should be used to connect the loudspeaker to the amplifier. Longer runs may require heavier cable. The basic rule is that the total resistance of the speaker cable should not exceed 5% of the loudspeaker impedance, i.e. 0.35 Ohms. Inductance should not exceed 1 microH per metre and capacity can be ignored. Exotic connecting cables are not necessary. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Regarding the 12AWG solid core speaker cables; I would first suggest anyone contemplating this purchase go to a store and see what 12 AWG solid core amounts to. This is NOT flexible cable and will NOT be easy to work with. If this is not a concern for you, then you can proceed at your own choice. On these particular cables I find little to base a decision on other than the comments provided by happy customers. Since it seems every cable manufacturer can find someone who likes their cable, these claims don't mean much to me. Read the Cardas site, or the Kimber site or any cable company's site and you'll see testimonials to how this or that cable absolutely blew away any other company's product. This is part of what makes cables seeem to be such snake oil to engineers. There is little agreement in consumer audio as to what makes a decent cable and for every Kimber there are several other companies saying Kimber has it all wrong. These cables may make your system sound wonderful or they may not. Unfortunately I don't see anything that suggests you can get your money back if you don't like what they do in your system. I will tell you the name anti-cable is well chosen because these cables go against everything that usually makes a good cable. I am concerned that there is no information provided about the actual construction of the cable and what is shown indicates nothing more than two conductors independent of each other. There is no twisting or spacing to consistently deal with the matters of capacitance and inductance. The reasoning behind these cables amounts to three justifications for their design. "1. The Anti-Cable's solid core wire eliminates the complex conductive and magnetic interaction that happens between the many individual strands of stranded wire." I have no idea what "complex conductive ... interaction" means. There are not many proponents of solid core for speaker cable. Those that are using solid core keep the gauge down to a more reasonable dimension and twist multiple strands together. I don't believe you would find anyone else even remotely proposing a cable design similar to what this company sells. Made up terms bother me in hifi. Borrowing from another company's information to prove your point is dubious. "2. Keeping each lead separate eliminates the magnetic fields of the leads from interacting with each other." This is true if you keep the cable about 6" apart at all times. Twisted pairs tend to be the accepted way to manufacture a good cable though there are exceptions. Unfortunately the interaction of magnetic fields addresses a very small portion of what constitutes good cable design and ignores many more important aspects. "3. The Anti-Cables strip off the biggest problem I hear with speaker cables... the insulation dielectric. Beyond the extremely thin red colored coating, there is nothing left but air, and air the best insulation dielectric!" This simply is either poor logic or an explanation of how they "manufacture" these cables. Is it possible the manufacture is simply stripping off the outer insulation of 12AWG Romex house cabling? There is no mention of what the actual thin red coating used as insulation material might be. Is it PVC or Teflon? Other than good quality copper, the subject of what the cable technology employs is never addressed. I can't begin to tell you whether these cables are worth $80 or whether you could find another comparable solution for substantially less. (Possibly, as Larry suggests, using HD 12 AWG Romex and stripping the outer insulation away yourself.) I certainly can't tell you whether these cables will benefit your system or whether they are going to end up in a closet. The lack of information would keep me away. The stiffness of 12AWG soild core would definitely keep me away. I would say, proceed at your own risk. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Not to dispute the recommendation from Quad, but in the case of their speakers the capacitance of the cable can be ignored since the amplifier sees a significant amount of capacitance in the power supply to the electrostatic panel. What the cable adds is usually rather insignificant to the overall number. If anyone has read the speaker cable review in "The Absolute Sound", Quad was the company that inspired including in that survey the 12AWG (stranded) extension cord from Home Depot. The Quad demo room is typically wired with the equivalent cable from Black and Decker which sells for around $35 dollars for a 20' run to each side. In general the HD cable did well in the survey and I've used the cable with good results overall. If you are interested, here are some of my comments on the last go arounf with cables on the forum. ********************* "As I said in a later post, DC resistance is of little interest to me in a home audio system. Resistance in a speaker cable, as a whole, is the easiest property of a cable to control. At the lengths used in the typical home audio system resistance alone does not amount to a significant number. Inductance and capacitance are the more difficult of the major characteristics to maintain as one will almost always affect the other when the cable is used in a circuit. When looking at the combined effects of resistance, capacitance and inductance, the concept of impedance begins to take shape. Even with this information, what the effect of the combined impedance of the cable will do to the signal is dependent upon the circuit itself. This from an article on cable construction, "the characteristic impedance of a cable varies with frequency. At DC, the characteristic impedance of all cables is infinite (for all intents and purposes), and the rated impedance is usually not reached until the signal frequency is well above the audio band". And, "in order to obtain a low characteristic impedance, it is necessary to have very low inductance and relatively high capacitance ... ". Relatively high capacitance will present problems to most modern amplifiers. There is the rub. Within the circuit of the amp/cable/speaker, the rise and fall of the speaker's impedance is much greater than the impedance of the cable and will affect the overall impedance of the circuit. If the speaker's impedance dips with frequency, the cable's impedance as part of the circuit will follow along. The same is true if the circuit impedance should rise with frequency. (This is very likely the case when dealing with the ported speakers common today as the impedance spikes at the port resonance.) At the amplifier end, the output impedance of the amplifier's circuits will (in any reasonable amp/cable combination) be substantially lower than the static measurement of the cable therefore making the resistance/impedance of the cable insignificant to the proper operation of the amplifier. Of course, this can change if the amplifier is not up to the task of driving the difficult load some speakers present. It is the interaction of the cable within the circuit that is the important factor here. The smaller output impedance of the amplifier normally being relatively unaffected by any well designed cable, but the larger impedance of the speaker having a determining effect on the overall impedance (not resistance) of the circuit. I don't know if that clears up what I should have posted. I didn't understand why the issue of resistance became the argument. Now that I read my posts again, I understand ca's comment of 2:37 on the 13th. As I see the issue of speaker cables and the sound of the system, it has nothing to do with the DC resistance of the cable whether the number at any one frequency is in the thousands or the millions. The more important factor of a cable's performance is within the circuit of the amp/cable/speaker. As such the less radical the impedance swing of a speaker, the better the chances speaker cables will have less overall effect. Since high end audio is populated with many speakers with impedance swings of twenty Ohms or more from low to high, the effects of a cable are not to be discounted with most speakers that are sold today. The measurements that represent the individual cable manufacturer's ideas on cable design, whether they amount to a few millionths of an Ohm in Eddy current resistance or some other factor, should be looked at as possible explanations for the difference that people percieve in cables. As most of us know about our audio systems, the Devil is in the details. To take any one measurement and decide that alone determines how a cable will sound is too simple an idea in the context of the multiples of amp/speaker combinations that cable could be used with. To see differences in the measured performance of a cable and not want to listen to the influence, if any, they might have on the sound of the system, seems to me to be looking not for an explanation but a justification." |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 716 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan V. - hope you read my "update" on these cables, and that they are pretty standard "magnet wire," whatever the difference that may make. You are so right - working with 12AWG wire is a finger-biter. I've wired up too many houses to know that this stuff is great for circuits, but hard on the hands! SM - IF you want, try to find some 14-gauge Magnet Wire - many electrical supply places will sell you this - for maybe $15 for all you need for your speakers. Unless Jan V. slams me down, you won't hear much difference between 12 and 14 for your short-run applications. Try hooking up this stuff - see if you can hear anything. Again - I hope some of you folks come Online and clear up for me "what is the difference between magnet wire and bulk wire?" Thanx. . . |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | And later I wrote: "Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 02:42 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- " People make some pretty bold claims about their cables ... " " ... if there is something specific to high end cables that makes them dramatically superior as some people claim, I would like to know what that is." I have thought and thought on how to most easily and completely provide some insight to the issue. I have failed in every attempt. Oh, there are lots of notes; lots of beginnings and endings laying about. But they all, in trying to be succinct, achieve just the opposite effect. I'm trying to explain the difference and value of every automobile ever made, or bottle of wine, or bit of human nature in a short few paragraphs. It can't be done. Why do people make such claims of astonishment when switching cables? Ask yourself why people say they have "the worst headache ever"? Because they do. Why are people suprised at the difference between certain automobiles? Because the difference is there, whether everyone notices or not. I believe to answer "why do people" do anything is well beyond the scope of this post. Though I'm certain we all have some idea and experience in the matter. Some of that experience is provable as as fact, some is more based on observation and conclusion. There is where most of my scribblings have ended up. There are people who, whether scientists or salespeople, fall along the lines of rationalists and empiricists. Plato and Aristotle, Galileo and Einstien or theorists and experimentalists. If you view science as telling us all we need to know, you will sit here. If you consider what we need to know we should look for, you will sit there. The agnosticism you bring to the discussion will determine your place along the string that stretches between the two extremes of here and there. Are you the person who believes in the supernatural and alternative medicine? Are you the person who believes the public should be saved from such hoaxes? Are you the person who wants more proof, one way or the other? Looking, over the past few days, at some of the claims on both sides of the cable issue, has made clear the amount of avoidance, diversion and out right dismissal of intelligent debate that exists on both sides. What I have found, for the most part, is the conclusion a well made cable will sound better than a poorly made cable. Yes, it suprised me too. To the rationalist this is all they need to know. To the experimentalist, this asks a basic question; why? It in itself is not a conclusion, but a point to research further. What then constitues a "well made cable"? I don't know. Many people don't know. That seems to be the biggest stumbling block to the rationalist who wishes all things be defined and definable. But, as I read most of the dismissals of cable sound, I see a logic that often progresses along the lines of ABC*EFG. There are too many claims on both sides to address easily. I'm not a scientist who can explain where the logic on either side ultimately fails. In some cases it's obvious, in another it is a matter of my needing more knowledge to get to a simple answer. If there is one to be had. The cable industry is made around the models of physics, metalurgy, polymers, antenna theory, cable theory and just a bit of JooJoo. It wasn't that long ago the idea of an amplifer's performance beyond 20kHz was dismissed as irrelevant to the sound of the amplifier. Only in the past thirty years have capacitors played a role in better amplifier sound. If the dielectric of a cap can affect its sound, why not the dielectric of a cable? There may prove to be issues that are presently overlooked which will rise in importance if we continue to exam the sound of cables. If we merely dismiss the idea out of hand, then we assume science has told us everything we need to know. Without refuting every test or manufacturer's claims, I have to fall back on my experience. A well made cable will sound better than a poorly made cable. I've heard the results. Much of what launched Kimber Kable in the market was a new approach to cable design that took a fresh look at the L-C-R of a cable to see the overall impedance, not just the L or R. Kimber also had an idea that went to antenna theory, which had been dismissed at speaker levels until then. Becuase the science was solid, though radical, Kimber is one of the most successful cable companies today. A major portion of their success has to be considered the fact that Kimber is almost a virtually gauranteed workable cable in almost any system. With all the variables to be considerd if we view the cable as part of a circuit between the amplifier and the speaker, Kimber is successful as often as 14AWG zip cord. But it sounds better in my experience. Considering the multiples of combinations of amplifer/cable/speaker that can be made, I don't know that I have a better answer than to suggest look at the combination you're faced with. Does the amplifier have a lot of capacitance at it's outputs? Does it have quite a bit of negative feedback? Does the tweeter spike in capacitance as it reaches its highest impedance and the phase of the operating system shift? Does the woofer generate large amounts of back electromotive force? All these might be a reason for choosing one cable over another. Even if the only choice is to use Kimber over zip. Are there other aspects of a cable's construction that might influence the results? Will skin effect matter? Will some made up term from the marketing department solve the equation? I really don't know. I am an observationalist. I believe most people would consider themself as such. If I see my dog respond to a homeopathic treatment, I have to consider the efficacy of the treatment on an animal that cannot make an irrational decision based on belief. There should be no placebo effect in that case. No JooJoo. If a system responds to the insertion of a cable, I have to, after numerous similar results, consider the ability of that cable to affect the workings of that circuit. Obviously there will be people who disagree. I'm certain this post will receive a fair share of ignorant responses from those who would merely wish to feel superior and look no further. I would prefer anyone who sees fault with my conclusions, as simple as they are considering the space available, would respond intelligently. All I can offer is first hand experience which some will dismiss as easily as the ghost in the neighbor's house. To them it is all JooJoo. If you wish to discount my ideas as inconcievable, I ask only that you do so in an intelligent fashion. If you wish to further clarify my statements, I ask that you also make intelligent remarks. I've tried to make the post as simple, and as complete, as possible, but the situation does not crave simplicity and there is no complete answer in my opinion." The entire thread can be found here: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/119996.html |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Magnet wire is very inexpensive and sells for pennies per foot. I know of no added quality to standard magnet wire, which is used to wind transformers and ballasts for flourescent lighting, over a common household cable. The outer insulation on magnet wire is an epoxy coating rather than a PVC or Teflon based material. One disadvantage to this wire is the epoxy can crack if bent repeatedly. That would open the cable to a short circuit. In a run under 50' per side the difference between 12 and 14 AWG is minimal. I will tell you a good friend wired his system with 10 AWG Romex back when he was running a Mac 2300 into Double Advents in 1976. It had very good impact in the bottom octaves (of course, Mac and Double Advents always had good impact in the bottom octaves). This was before Noel Lee started Monster Cable and I have no comparison to what his arrangement sounded like compared to a different cable. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1471 Registered: Aug-04 | John A "No need for a centre speaker, nor a sub." Is there an echo in here? But you're right of course John, just one little speaker will do. J.V. Nice comment on the anti-cable - we're almost back to the coathanger wire comparison again. All, The 602's are opening up marvellously. "<gush> God, they are wonderful speakers." (grin) Seriously though - they really are! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | http://www.theabsolutesound.com/newsletter/147/cable_survey2.html "Home Depot HD-14G est. $30 per 50-foot pair with terminations Okay, the model designation is my own invention, standing for H (Home) D (Depot) 14G(auge) outdoor extension cord. Otherwise, this entry is no joke. Like several other cables, it comes in a decorative jacket, here of striking orange and black, evocative of Halloween; unlike the others, you must snip off its AC connectors and attach terminations of choice (I used Pomona bananas). The HD-14G rendered Murray Perahia's piano in a big bold manner, lacking just a little in finesse and ultimate transparency. It threw an image on Jacintha's "Something's Gotta Give" with the best--one note reads, "some of the best depth of any cable"--with tuneful bass, notably good height, and a quite lifelike projection. On the Rachmaninoff, it didn't sound as "fast," transparent, controlled, or defined in the bass as the better cables, but it wasn't far behind them either, and it was always highly listenable and involving, with a big-boned, robust presentation that flattered the Appalachian Spring sonics. As for detail, well, it allowed me to hear every piano chord that bleeds through Jacintha's headphones at the beginning of "Danny Boy" (Autumn Leaves); more detail than that you don't need. I'll leave the last observation to the most technically knowledgeable, musically literate, and experienced of my listening group: "You know what's really good about this cable? It sounds totally unscrewed around with." If its half-inch thickness isn't macho enough, Home Depot also sells a 12-gauge for half again that sum, and a 10-gauge for about twice the price, both in less attractive yellow-and-black jackets. If you still think I'm kidding, know that Tony Faulkner--engineer of about a third of the best-sounding orchestral recordings of the last twenty years--used the Black-and-Decker equivalent to hook up his Quad 989s at the recent Heathrow Show in England--"They are made from good, thick copper wire, look nice and sound good to me"--and that the designer of what is by provable standards one of the half dozen or so most accurate loudspeakers ever made uses and recommends it all the time." ************************** After reading this survey, I tried the HD cable and it is on my front speakers of my HT system having replaced a too short pair of Kimbers. It gave up very little to the Kimber and the sound was slightly less bright by comparison. Before I went to HD I cut up an older extension cable I had on hand. I was severely disappointed with the sound of this cable and pulled it out of the system the next day. There is a difference between the HD cable and a generic extension cord. That doesn't mean you can't find the same cable at another store but HD will sell this cable for dirt cheap prices so why bother. The cable is also sold in bulk and you don't have to hack off the AC plugs. The tweakers have begun using the HD cable in twisted pairs to lower inductance and capacitance. If you want to try this route, buy two higher gauge cables (14 or 16 AWG) and twist them together at about the rate of one full twist per foot and maintain the twist either with some shrink wrap or a not too tight cable tie. Some systems also prefer the spaced conductor arrangement with the two cables spaced about 1" (or more) apart. This spacing will decrease inductance but increase capacitance. Not many amplifier like to see additional capacitance on their outputs and may go into oscillation if too much is present. Short runs shouldn't present a problem to any amplifier the Old Dogs are likely to use. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | "God, they are wonderful speakers." What's Eric Clapton got to do with it? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2864 Registered: Dec-03 | MR, "No need for a centre speaker, nor a sub." Is there an echo in here? Before, it was a prediction. Now, I hear it. If I had a much larger room a sub would be useful, partly for bass extension, and to do the grunt work and take the load off the mains - the ESLs protect themselves at above 40 V rms by shorting the amp output. But, for now, unnecessary. Also the centre. Perfect dialogue and complete sound stage with no centre speaker. I just set the player to "Centre - None". So I do not need to worry where to put a centre speaker when we get the projector. As before, I suspect that 5.1 was originally inspired by the desire to get deep bass (which is not directional) without an expensive main amp, and to get directional sound from small speakers under conditions where people do not wish to have a proper stereo set-up for various reasons, WAF perhaps being one. Directional and deep sound "on the cheap" if you like. But I do not disparage that. Most sane people have other things to do with their money. For music and movies, I think I will stick with 4.0, even when I get all my other kit back. I shall try it and see. And let you know what I find. But I also come back to Jan's basic point. The sound stage I now hear is quite amazing. Depth, distance. I still think surround channels can add something, and, yes, for music. But it is not such a big deal compared with getting the stereo right. I am still unable to decide how much of the DVD-A "Wow" factor was down to the surround, and how much came from increased resolution. And, if the latter, how much of that came from using the "Ext 5.1" input, which I since discovered is better for all sources. And was so pleased you found this, too. MR. Here is a thought (you will say "paranoia" again, MR!). NAD confess the analogue 5.1 connection is required only by "digital rights agreements". Could it be an industry-wide "Dog and Pony" act....? That is, miss out the sound-degrading processor in the pre-amp, ready for Prologic, EARS, ambience effects, reverb etc., and tell the punter that the improvement is down to the new formats, which are touted as inherently better. I just ask the question. Jan...? I have heard awesome resolution from CDs on these new speakers. As I said, above, I am thinking again on all this. What I wrote before on DVD-A was truly what I believed. I am now in some doubt about the whole thing. I used to say the resolution was obviously better than that of CD. But the different connections between the player and receiver could have been most or even all of the explanation. Surround? Yes, I stick to my guns. But it is not a revolution; not a whole new world. Resolution? No longer sure. At least I now have the speakers to reveal all. I'll write some more when get the old components back. All the best. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Just somethings I found poking around a Yahoo search engine: http://www.robertshifi.com/cable-survey.html http://www.vansevers.com/maybe.html http://www.rdrop.com/users/billmc/bookmarks.html http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/16.htm http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm http://www.fiendation.com/300zx/bosefaq.htm http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/press2000.html http://directwest.iinet.net.au/conrad/bookmark.htm http://kopun.host.sk/pages/links.html http://www.avahifi.com/root/audio_basics/ab_index_complete.htm http://users.beanstalk.net/tkreitz/companies.html http://www.performancerecordings.com/capturing-music.html http://www.robertshifi.com/ http://www.shoppingtarget.com/Consumer_Electronics_Home_Theater.html http://www.urbantulsa.com/article.asp?id=1858 http://www.ultrajosh.com/tubeamp/ http://www.acoustics.org/booklist.html http://spider.smig.net/users/mbundy/history_telephone.htm http://www.audibleillusions.com/tech.htm Larry, just for you: http://www.rtoonline.com/Content/Article/Jan04/KleggEggs010204.asp "What this country needs is a good 5 watt amplifier." - Paul Klipsch "I'm not lying. I'm writing fiction with my mouth." - Homer Simpson Any questions not answered in any of the above links? |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 114 Registered: Jan-05 | Thanks, Jan for all the information. I will print it out to read in detail. I was aware of the other thread with the great cable debate. As I've never used fancy cable before (except for the Kimber I/C connecting the CD player), I don't know which side of the debate to join. My gut feeling says you can't totally discount cable's contribution to the sound of the system. Trying some out is the only way to form an opinion. But, I do have some limits as to how far I would go - just like in high school. Paying $10-15/ft is reasonable to me although it is at the high end of my threshold. The Speltz cable was mentioned and enthusiastically endorsed by several on MUG (the maggie forum) and it piqued my interest. I think Speltz does offer a 30 day money back guarantee. But, Jan you raised some excellent questions regarding the manufacturing of the cable. Will read through all the information again and will make a decision. Perhaps I'll stick with trying the Mapleshade cable and do a comparison with it to the HD cable mentioned above. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | " ... and to get directional sound from small speakers under conditions where people do not wish to have a proper stereo set-up for various reasons ... " So now you got it in for small speakers, eh, Mr. 30" x 60" panel? Well your Quads may be bigger and uglier, but my little 3/5a's are ready to duke it out. Woofer e woofer! Oh, I forgot - your speakers don't have a "woofer"! Rick, are you and the Spendors ready to rumble with this guy? We'll show you "proper stereo set up"! " ... and tell the punter that the improvement is down to the new formats, which are touted as inherently better. I just ask the question. Jan...?" First things first. We have to deal with this small speaker stuff. The honor of the BBC is at stake. ****************** The Dayton Wright SPS pre amp was my first piece of high end equipment in the '70's. Soon followed by a Citation 12D. http://www.dayton-wright.com/DWSPS01.html DW made some ESL speakers that were, at the time, considered superior to the Quads. They were very impressive in looks and sound. John, you might want to scroll down to "History and Background" and "Electrostatic Speakers". I doubt this will be of much interest to anyone else. http://www.dayton-wright.com/index.shtml |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | " do have some limits as to how far I would go - just like in high school." ??? |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 115 Registered: Jan-05 | Ok, Jan, my last post was written before you posted all the links. lol. So, once again, thanks for all the information. JohnA, I crossed your post too. Congrats again on the success of the Quads. It is perspective altering isn't it? I've gone through that twice now, first with the McIntosh now with the Maggies. I realized that, in my quest to rearrange my furniture to give more breathing room for the maggies, I've now come completely full circle. Remember, the Plunging into Multichannel thread I started? Remember how one of my quandries was about having to move the TV back into the living room so I could take full advantage of the surround system (i.e. with movies in addition to music) but also so I would be able to view the onscreen setup menus of the receiver and universal player? Now, the TV is leaving the living room again and, last night, I realized I will again be in the quandry of accessing the Denon's onscreen menu. LOL. The only time it would be necessary is when I need to switch to DVD-A stereo since the SACD stereo can be switched via the controls on the front of the player. Guess I'll have to look into getting a little monitor to serve this purpose until I'm ready to invest in a flat panel TV. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 116 Registered: Jan-05 | LOL! Crossed posts again, Jan. I don't really need to explain that limit thing, do I? JohnA, I'm certain your Quads can handle the Spendor show down without any problems. But, just in case, you need reinforcement, Maggie is standing by. Meanwhile, there's a really nice pair of Spendors for auction on eBay..... |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | SM - You only need to explain what you feel needs explaining. I'm sure we are all curious now. Regards the shootout at the BBC corral; unfortunately SM is not allowed to back shoot the contestants as she should be reminded she purchased the 12 gauge shotgun version of the Spendors. The largest driver allowed on the side of right and might and all that's holy will be a 4 1/2" woofer. Just one per box, please. None of these fancy-shmancy two and one half way speakers. I believe your quarrel is with floor standing speakers not us little pip squeaks. Should the Maggies decide they want in this fight, I've got 15 Ohms per speaker that says your 4 Ohm panels will blow up a receiver faster than my woofers will. |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 717 Registered: Oct-04 | Whew! Still working my way down Jan's long link-list, and may never finish! Anyway - from what I gather, I'm pretty safe with my 10AWG Blue Jeans Cable speaker wire. Though jest fer duh fun of it, I may hook up some HD solid-core 14-gauge and see if it does anything magical. Yep. . . Never realized how much I use the CD/DVD player until I "lost" mine to the Yamaha folk. And today, as I was trying to play a CD on the liddle 941 - the disc jammed in the drawer! Ouch! Couldn't get it to open - finally went to the manual to see about the "emergency" open procedure, and did get the disc out. Tried a second CD (foolishly) and the danged thing hung up again. That was it - I took it back to Best Buy and told them about the problem. The one person at the counter just pointed to two other Samsungs that had come in recently - same problem. Quality control, anyone??? No CDs. No DVDs. Sigh. . . . . . Jan V. - been searching about for magnet wire, and I see that you can get it in various coatings, ranging from a sorta varnish to plastic of various types. I guess Speltz uses wire with a very thin plastic coating - which I can get at auction on eBay, BTW. Still have to agree with you that 12AWG solid is a mess to work with - and unless run very carefully, will look pretty bad, with bends and ripples. More anon. . . |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 718 Registered: Oct-04 | SM - re JV's last posting. Wow - 4 ohm panels. I never realized you looked That good! (snicker) |
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Silver Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 719 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan V. - sorry, just one more thing, sir. I'm into "Orbs," not "Kleggs." But take off the K and things are different. (grin) |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 895 Registered: Dec-03 | We have very short memories don't we now? If you remember I had a pair of Maggie 1.6's. I still maintain they are a world class speaker. So why are my Maggies gone? I replaced them with a speaker that had all the things I love about planar speakers and then some-OHMS! SM, you know I love you but you can't dismiss the Spendor line because of the S5e. I have no experience with this model, but you can't dismiss a direct offspring, the S3/5, of an audio legend and classic. I am talking about the LS3/5a's. We all listen to different things in speakers. I still maintain that the little S3/5 is the most timbral accurate speaker I have ever heard at any price. Without timbral accuracy first, what good is the rest? So yes Jan, let them bring on what they have. Bring on those room dividers, we're ready to rumble. Almost forgot, if you don't show up with tubes, you have half lost the battle already.........LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1472 Registered: Aug-04 | The Spendor shootout huh! Well, the 602's just rode into town with guns blazin, hombres. Better duck! The (300 quid) B&W 602 S3 Review http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=2451 The (850 quid) Spendor 3/5SE Review http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=2734 They both get 4 stars, but you can see how the Spendors were outgunned on sound by the 602's. (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1473 Registered: Aug-04 | John A Maybe you are still a victim of the Quad "WOW FACTOR" (lol!) My friend, if you only want 4 speakers then you have 4 speakers. IMO, DVD-A and SACD (good productions) are superior to CD, which I must admit sounded truly excellent with the 602's. Mrs Rantz agreed, but in the final analysis, she agreed also that surround (5.1)wins - hands down! You will not convince me otherwise, but I know you'll keep trying. If the countless posts on the wonders of DVD-A are now to be relegated to the 'Sorry folks, I mighta bin wrong' category, then maybe - just maybe you might do a double take when you hear surround with the Quads. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 896 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, I don't have that "special edition" stuff. Just plain old S3/5's. We don't need no stinking SE's. Bring it on kids. By the way, what color were the reviewers ears? Just curious................LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1474 Registered: Aug-04 | Alwight Quickdraw McRick "By the way, what color were the reviewers ears? Just curious................LOL!" I shall not dignify that question with an answer! Fight fair now podner [grin] |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 897 Registered: Dec-03 | well were they pink or gold? |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1475 Registered: Aug-04 | Well, regardless of colour, they do seem accurate. I can't compare the 602's to the legendary S3/5's not having heard the latter, but I can say I'm knocked out by the 602's - they go head to head with the (more expensive by $800) JBL floorstanders in every department and are more open in the mids and with a cleaner top end which I would have thought impossible. Bass is very impressive without being boomy. The only let down is the vinyl veneer though the finish is good. I guess timber veneer would only add a couple of hundred to the price. Eric, they are wonderful speakers! (grin) So, if the Spendor gang is looking for a contest they'd sure better be packin'! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | HiFi Choice, eh? The finest hifi magazine on line, eh? And what tubes were they running when they compared the two speakers? NO?!!! Transistors? Really?!!! OK. That explains a lot. Besides those B&W's got a hole in them. Everybody knows you don't build good speakers with holes in 'em. And look at the size of those woofers - they're huge! |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 117 Registered: Jan-05 | JohnA, If I caught your inferences correctly, Jan helped you with this Quad decision. Now, he wants to try to convince us that the li'l Spendors are superior? Ha! Jan, I make a lot of mistakes but learn from them.... usually.....One thing I've learned in the past 2 weeks is 7 pairs of the "shotgun" model have shown up on Audiogon and they ain't exactly selling like hotcakes. Word must be getting out about the "hype". My experience has made me a little "gun shy" so to speak on giving Spendor another, er, shot. Maybe down the road, I'll think about the S3/5 but, with all due respect to Brother Rick, I just don't see how those little boxes can convey the soundstage, depth and even detail I'm hearing from the maggies. I swear it sounds like the musicians are playing in my living room. Color me skeptical that the baby boxes are that different from the shotgun boxes. JohnA, Something tells me this "wow factor" won't wear off anytime soon...for either of us. Finally, what is with the strategy of trying to win the "shootout" or showdown by pointing to reviews? Baby, I got burned believing the reviews on the shotgun boxes. No, the only way we can know for sure is to pack up our equipment and head to MR's house for the showdown. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1476 Registered: Aug-04 | Most people with tubes have 'em tied by your age, Jan! Gosh, imagine the preening if the the review was opposite. One word - sportsmanship! Oh Eric, save me! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1477 Registered: Aug-04 | SM Y'all are welcome, but prepare for disappointment LOL! And I too agree about reviews - but I just had to put that one in! (grin) |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 118 Registered: Jan-05 | MR, It would be an interesting test to see if any minds could be changed. Pardon me for a moment....sorry, had to bask in the glorious sounds emanating from the living room. It's hard to focus on anything these days. This weekend the weather has been sunny and warm (in the upper 60's) and I've stayed inside listening to music. Well, except for a trip to Manifest Records and Home Depot today. Had to pick up Miles Davis' "B i t c h e s Brew" after hearing a cut off it last night. This is some pretty trippy stuff. I'm just so thrilled with the MMG's. Hope no one takes it as "gloating" - it's not meant that way. They are definitely the biggest bang I've gotten for the bucks I've spent the past 9 months - well, except maybe for the Mac. So, JohnA is having to take some ribbing on the God/Eric comment. Ok, I'll pitch in too. When I first read his comment, I immediately thought of those love tapes between Charles and Camilla. lol. Sorry, John. However, I understand where you are coming from. Pure rapture. Sem, Mr.B took my call and is going to help me. However, I have to accommodate his schedule. Maybe it'll get moved in the next week. Larry, I have some pics for you - no not those! I'll post 'em in a few minutes. But, you'll have to wait on the Maggies until I can get them in their new setup. :-) In fact, I believe this will also be the debut pics of Mighty Mac, too. The only Mac pics I've posted was poor gap-toothed Mac who is now living with Jan. See y'all down under! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 898 Registered: Dec-03 | SM, Staggers the imagination, doesn't it? A little bitty sealed box can sound that good. Enjoy the Maggies, they are fine speakers! Rantz, Why would we want our tubes tied? Jan, did you neglect to tell me something? LOL! BTW-As to the reviewer, if no tube amp, he definitely had pink ears........................ |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 1478 Registered: Aug-04 | SM I don't take any person's views on their gear as gloating - joking aside. The fact is there will always be better gear out there than what each of us owns. There is nothing wrong in letting others know how satisfied/unsatisfied we may be with our acquisitions. Sometimes it might appear that it becomes a 'mine is bigger than yours' type of thing to which you are obviously excused LOL! Now, back to the preening, the 602's are about the best . . . |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 119 Registered: Jan-05 | Rick, I am still intrigued by Spendor but realize I made a mistake in not getting the S3/5. Also, I haven't forgotten about "Into the Mystic". :-) Never gave it a listen on the shotgun boxes because I wanted it to be "right" and I never truly got to that point. As I mentioned to Larry, I'm not making any more audio purchases (except speaker wire) until I've sold off some of my excess inventory. lol |
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