Car amp 14.4 volts in a 12 volt car

 

New member
Username: The_egoiste

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-10
how do i connect a 14.4 volt Alpine M500 class D mono amp in a 12 volt car .I have KICKER Comp 10" subwoofer .please advise
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 14886
Registered: Jan-08
naresh

14.4 volts is the voltage of your car when the motor run, the battery give + -12.5 volts.
 

New member
Username: The_egoiste

Post Number: 2
Registered: Sep-10
hi plymouth.

I have bought this car ampliflier for a car which is in INDIA and its 12volts .will it help if i attach a capacitor between the amp and the battery..?pls advise
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 14887
Registered: Jan-08
Yes it's 12 volts but if you check with a voltage tester, you will found the voltage that I tell you!

A capacitor always help!

1 farad or more for your amp!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13853
Registered: Dec-03
capacitors are useless.
the amplifier will work in your car.
end of story.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nd4spd18

Philadelphia, PA

Post Number: 11413
Registered: Jul-06
plymouth = fail


whats up glass wolf? lol.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 14894
Registered: Jan-08
Capacitors always help but I assume that a good and expensive amplifier doesn't need!

We don't talk about this kind of amplifier!

End of story!
 

Gold Member
Username: Snowball123

West Allis, WI

Post Number: 3563
Registered: Oct-07
Plymouth, capacitors are useless.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 14897
Registered: Jan-08
Are you able to make a amplifier like me?
 

Silver Member
Username: Mystre

Pemberville, Ohio USA

Post Number: 489
Registered: Sep-05
Not this again. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/654014.html
He quotes squidoo.com for his capacitors argument. He must work for a company that supplies most capacitor companies some of their parts. I advised the op of the other post to read Glass's paper and he told me "Compared a 1.5 farads capacitor with a 9 volts battery is a joke or he miss something!" He seems to think that a capacitor will help improve SQ.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mystre

Pemberville, Ohio USA

Post Number: 490
Registered: Sep-05
From Plymouth's profile:
Age: 4?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nd4spd18

Philadelphia, PA

Post Number: 11421
Registered: Jul-06
Well hold on here.... if he's saying that capacitors have a purpose he's right. Every amplifier uses capacitors. They're inside it in the power supply part of the board. Every amplifier has however much capacitance it needs to smooth out input voltage built in. That's why external capacitors are useless and provide no gain... so yes capacitors in general have a use. Many uses in electronics actually. The giant car audio ones that we refer to on car audio forums are useless tho.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 14899
Registered: Jan-08
Eric

Do you know what is damping?

Lower is the damping better is the sound, but it work only if the power supply is very strong and stable!

But I assume that for only the bass, that is less important!

Damping factor is the signal correction between the output then the input, the problem is the delay to correct it which create harmonic not desirable, that's why the hi power amp doesn't sound as good as low power amp.

The best Hi-fi ampli can have 1% harmonic distorsion!
 

Silver Member
Username: Mystre

Pemberville, Ohio USA

Post Number: 491
Registered: Sep-05
Good point MS. I do believe he is referring to the giant car audio ones.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 14900
Registered: Jan-08
M.S.

You are right about the capacitors inside the amps but they use a small capacity because of the high frequency of the power supply to increase the voltage, a high farad capacitor can furnish 2000 amps on a low period that the battery can't furnish permitting less correction from the damping for a strong control of the speaker and best quality.

That also permit less reasonance and a real sound with more detail!

Like I say, if you want strong db according to your speaker box system to win competition of power, do not use a capacitor!

All depend of what you want!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 14902
Registered: Jan-08
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Role-of-a-Capacitor-in-a-Car-Audio-System&id=19806 45



You've got a slammin' new sound system in your vehicle, right? But have you ever noticed a strange effect that happens whenever the bass line punches up to maximum? The car lights dim; the high end drops in brightness and clarity, and the sound may even get a little..."fuzzy."

Congratulations! You've just entered the clipping zone. All these effects (and more) are all caused when the power needs of your sound system amplifier are greater than a mere car battery can provide. After all, your battery isn't worrying about providing the maximum power to the amplifier that is pushing the subwoofers speakers that give your system its best bass response. No, it's concerned with trivial issues like keeping the engine running.

So what to do? Like Captain Kirk on the Starship Enterprise, you "need more power!" And that's where capacitors come in. Unlike a battery, where power is stored up and released in a slow, steady stream of juice, capacitors store up electrical energy and release it in powerful jolts. Mounted right next to your amplifiers, capacitors (also known as "stiffening capacitors" because they stiffen the strength of a sagging bass response) provide the extra electrical boost required to drive the subwoofers speakers when the power they need is being sucked off by other systems (like the headlights or the neon undercarriage trim).

So how do capacitors perform this miracle of power punching? It's all a question of resistance. Resistance is kind of like an energy floodgate; it determines how fast or slow power can enter or leave an electrical storage system. Batteries store electrical power slowly and release it slowly because they have a high level of resistance; the narrow floodgate means that it takes a while to pump a battery full of juice, but it also means that it takes a while to drain the juice out of it. Capacitors have a very low resistance. They can be filled with energy very rapidly, but the width of their "flood gate" means that this energy also releases in a rush as well.

Why don't we use capacitors to power everything? Simple; if we did, you'd turn your system on, it would power up with brilliant sound, thumpin' bass and smooth midrange for about twenty seconds-then all the power would be exhausted and your music system would die in the first two bars of the latest Coldplay cut. Batteries give you smooth, long-term power that will get you through the whole album and into the next couple of hours of musical enjoyment. The catch is when a sudden push is needed to drive your subwoofers speakers harder than the trickle of power a battery can provide. A stiffening capacitor detects this drop in power and releases a compensating jolt to fill the gap, keeping power levels uniformly high and preventing that sagging bass and clipping of tone that wipes out the perfect music experience. Stiffening capacitors are to your sound system what spinach is to Popeye-that secret energy source that keeps your music "strong to the finish!"

So the next time your subwoofers speakers are sagging, reach for your sound systems' own personal spinach-stiffening capacitors-and get the blastin' bass that even Bluto Blutarski would envy. You'll be glad you did.

 

Silver Member
Username: Domenico

BanginGMCArizona

Post Number: 817
Registered: Apr-09
lol
 

Silver Member
Username: Mystre

Pemberville, Ohio USA

Post Number: 493
Registered: Sep-05
Or you could do your self and your car's electrical a favor and upgrade to an HO alternator and/or a new/second battery. Using a capacitor for that reason is like putting a bandage that needs stitches. Give it up, a lot of the people on here do not believe in capacitors.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nd4spd18

Philadelphia, PA

Post Number: 11425
Registered: Jul-06
yep been covered a zillion times, only remedy for a lacking electrical system is HO alternator... cause thats where power comes from.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mystre

Pemberville, Ohio USA

Post Number: 495
Registered: Sep-05
Thank you M.S. !
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 14903
Registered: Jan-08
That's because you like boom boom!

Just to see your Box without separators able to sound on only one frequency, not surprise to hear it!

Hi-fi is a science that you doesn't have!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13855
Registered: Dec-03
Plymouth, yes I have designed and built amplifiers. My latest project is a Nelson Pass Aleph J. capacitors in the power supply portion of an amplifier internally are required. Large electrolytic caps with moderately high ESRs between the mp and battery don't help. Their voltage mirrors the circuit voltage, so when the alternator and battery voltage rails sag, so does the capacitor, not to mention if the car's charging system is that inadequate already, the cap won't get the chance to recharge anyway. Caps don't help anything but to act as an AC ripple filter for the alternator and less-than-stellar filtering of the voltage regulator. Shush now, please.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 14916
Registered: Jan-08
Hi Glasswolf!

I can't see the utility of a 25 farads capacitors and do not recommand it at all, I think that over 2 farads and maybe less we will not see the difference, I agree that the source of power must be enough powerfull to drive the ampli.

What happen if we don't run the motor?

I am more a Hi-fi guy that a boom boom guy, I've play with car sound big system 20 years ago with modified amplifiers but my search to best sound was not the db power but the quality and a very detailed sound on all the range of frequencies.

The result of this power was a continual headache, this system will not be reinstalled in my new Grand Caravan. I use again those modified Amplifier to make music show or like vocal in orchestral show.

Note that the modification is situated after the power supply section of the ampli then the damping factor was reduced, the power ampli section was strong enough to not be modified with 120 amps.

I actualy run in my house with a modified Adcom préamplifier and amplifier, this choice was for its hi voltage preamp which is 80 volts instead of 12 volts like usual, the ampli modification was more matched transistors for a total of 100 amps under 92 volts then a bank of 4 big mallory capacitors then 16x 6800 mfd, the damping factor was reduced to nothing, no problem to run under 2 ohms!

I was a tube guy before but this amplifier sound as well that any tube ampli even if it cost 15 000$, this ampli was tested by the more reputy Hi-fi house of Quebec city, the owner had listened it during 3 hours and was very surprised by its great quality of sound.

I'm sorry for the debate on this forum and I can see that we don't search for the same sound even if certainly few guy have the same thought as me.

Plymouth
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13857
Registered: Dec-03
large caps (25Fd and greater for example) are usually carbon capacitors and have a very high ESR, making them less than ideal for any audio power supply application.
If you run the audio system without the engine running, the system relies on the battery, or a bank of batteries for power.
I've competed for 20 years in SQ events with mobile audio, in USAC and IASCA, and am an engineer and professional installer, but that aside, if you were experiencing listening fatigue, this is usually a sign of issues with the system or installation .
As for modified amplifiers, I'm using a pair of modified Orion 2250SX mps in my current system, having updated some of the FETs (finals) in the amp with more modern components than those used in the original construction in the early 1990s. The amp's power supply is very sufficient as every component in the amplifiers is MilSpec.

What Adcom are you using? I have a GFA-555 Mk II, along with a Krell KSA-200, and an Aragon 2002. I'm using them to drive 2 pair of KEF Reference 104/2s and a pair of Martin Logan Vantage ESL panels.

I've dealt with some McIntosh tube amps, and yeah they can get expensive, but if you like tubes, give the Pass Aleph J a try. It's a JFET Class A amplifier rated @ 25 watts x 2ch @ 8 ohms, but has a very tube like sound to it. It's a fantastic amp and only costs about $2500 brand new.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 14932
Registered: Jan-08
Glasswolf

I'm glad to see a guy who know what he talking about!

>if you were experiencing listening fatigue, this is usually a sign of issues with the system or installation<

No it was because the high db gain, the sound was great I was able to listen classic music then Jazz which most of the boom boom system can't! This system was performed with a db level meter then a frequency generator to produce the most exact sound.

My Adcom is GFA-535, the GFA-555 use the same board plate, the preamp is a modified GTP-500, only power supply capacitor was added.

I don't believe any more in tube since I undestand why the tube sound better, we tested new hi speed transistors on a old transistor McIntosh amplfier but we were obliged to add film capacitor to limit the very high frequency. The new amp with MosFet run on very high speed then the damping factor can be higher but not too much because it create a echo in high frequency.

I use the Adcom's with those old modified speaker : http://www.marklev.com/IMF/RSPM/index.html

A reinforcement was added between the back and the front which caused a noise of enclosure, a reinforcement were added between the woofer back and enclosure, the 2 big baffles on the bottom was reduced to 30% of its opening to reduce the cave sound of bass, the tweeters were also replaced, the bass and mid transducer are made by KEF, the speaker wire cost only 730$, I'm satisfy with it but I would like a pair of Bowers and Wilkins BW800 series, the cost let me on my appetite.

Best regard!

Plymouth
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13863
Registered: Dec-03
I think my next pair will be electrostatics again. at $730 for speaker wire, I'm guessing it was silver wire? Did you use high silver content solder for the connections?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 14936
Registered: Jan-08
Glasswolf

Yes! Eletrostatics provide excelent mid and high frequency but hard to mach with sub.

Fortunatly I do not have to pay this price but 320$ because that was demo cable, all solder are with silver then each cable(4 cable) are 1/2 inch diameter with about +- 40 individual wires of shielded pure copper oxygen free. Those cable are 20' of lenght.
Personaly I use tin like solder because I can't see the difference, all is like you put your wire on the board, I put the wire to make the best contact between copper to copper, in this way the tin between the two part to weld lost less impedance.

I can see that you are a connoisseur!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13872
Registered: Dec-03
the main purpose of using silver solder on silver tinned multi-strand speaker cable is to avoid dissimilar metals, really, more so than for any audible difference. Just like we use gold plated connectors not for the shiny looks, but because it's a maleable, noble metal that won't oxidize, and forms to the connection more readily for better surface contact. Anyway, I just built some new speaker cables for my KEFs this past week, too. I'm using some cable with a 17mm outer diameter, 15 feet per cable in length, with a pair of 8AWG conductors, each with 806 strands of individually silver-tinned wire, with banana fittings on each lead. I used these to replace my older bi-amp cables that I'd built a few years ago with 12AWG conductors. They looks great on the back of these speakers.
The MartinLogan electrostatics are great in that they use a powered woofer in the lower cabinet that's seemlessly crossed over @ 200Hz to the ESL panel for each speaker, so they'll shake the room, but it's a very smooth integration. Very life like.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 14944
Registered: Jan-08
The first Martin Logan Quad ESL was over all speaker with a pure sound, the best match to ML CLS was a 15'' on a 1.5'' plexyglass plate like support in front then a identical plate in back maintained by 4 big blocks 3'' in each corner with all side wall open, unfortunatly I can't found this sub.
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