Need seroius help
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I NeEdHeLp Unregistered guest | I have a Geo Metro and i want to put that badass Audiosh!t 30in sub facing out of my trunk. If I get a 10000 watt amp, will it be enough to propel my geo acting like a "Turbo boost"? and if I get that sub, does the chick come in the box? I want my geo ta be like Kit from knight rider, is this the best way ta go? I think I'm gonna finally score with my basass Geo! It's got a SONY logo in the back window and a Boss logo on the door! I'm so kool it hurts! |
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Silver Member Username: RswanPost Number: 125 Registered: Apr-04 | DUDE YOU ARE COOL!!!! hahaha yeah right, but i bet you already knew that. if you were serious you would deserve a kick in the a$$ |
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New member Username: AyekPost Number: 5 Registered: Apr-04 | LOL ur right u really need help...professional medical help |
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KMART;AMAN Unregistered guest | I have a turbo charged geo metro that runs on piss and methane f@rt gas! It's got tiger striped seat covers that I bought at K-mart and a pair of plush dice hanging from the rear view mirror! It's suspention is pushed down so far that when I bring my fat lard boyfriend, my turbo muffler hits the ground. It's even got one of those mexican carhorns! What an awsome car! You wanna compare?!!!! |
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Silver Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 658 Registered: May-04 | I thought about building a Geo Metro sleeper one time...haha. Try to fit a big block Chevy in it and 4 or 5 speed, quiet mufflers, that'd be so funny. Then I'd outrun cops just so I could hear on the radio "We're gonna need backup, we've got a 91 Geo Metro going 160+" They'd think that cop was on drugs. |
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Silver Member Username: JayjPost Number: 236 Registered: May-04 | Hey Jonathan you prolly going to think I'm crazy but this is true. I had a good friend of mine put a chevy 283 in a 92 model please don't ask me how he got it in there but he did. He also put in a rear end out of a full size chevy truck. And of course he cut the fenders out. Last time I saw it it was totaled. He told me he was trying to see how fast it would run and by time he got to 130 he lost control and rolled it about 5 or 6 times. I did ask him if he would try it again and he said hell no. I thought that was so funny. I will see if he took any pics of it and see about sending them to ya. |
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Silver Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 663 Registered: May-04 | That's awesome. That's what turned me off the idea, that much power in a Geo would be like throwing a jet engine on a go kart, no traction, too light, poor weight balance. A very powerful engine would probably rip the car in half from the twisting of the axle under heavy acceleration, anyway. I had a 67 mustang a couple years back that I found a 427 SOHC and put it in that car, after rebuilding it and working the heads, replacing with custom ground cams, two Holley double pumpers, it made somewhere between 750-800 hp WITHOUT boost or anything. They made over 600 stock. Awesome motor, of course no gas mileage, but I could embarrass any Honda owner that pulled up to me. I was proud to have the motor that got kicked of the NASCAR track because it had too much power. Ford used that motor for 3 races if I remember correctly, filling more than the top 5 spots (All ford, from 1st place to 5th and over, nothing but Ford), and left 426 Hemis and whatever Chevy (409 maybe, or their 427, can't remember) was using in the dust. |
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Silver Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 664 Registered: May-04 | That's awesome. That's what turned me off the idea, that much power in a Geo would be like throwing a jet engine on a go kart, no traction, too light, poor weight balance. A very powerful engine would probably rip the car in half from the twisting of the axle under heavy acceleration, anyway. I had a 67 mustang a couple years back that I found a 427 SOHC and put it in that car, after rebuilding it and working the heads, replacing with custom ground cams, two Holley double pumpers, it made somewhere between 750-800 hp WITHOUT boost or anything. They made over 600 stock. Awesome motor, of course no gas mileage, but I could embarrass any Honda owner that pulled up to me. I was proud to have the motor that got kicked of the NASCAR track because it had too much power. Ford used that motor for 3 races if I remember correctly, filling more than the top 5 spots (All ford, from 1st place to 5th and over, nothing but Ford), and left 426 Hemis and whatever Chevy (409 maybe, or their 427, can't remember) was using in the dust. NASCAR told Ford they could never use that motor in their races ever again, basically forced them to downgrade the motor to something that would allow the others to have a chance. |
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Silver Member Username: JayjPost Number: 238 Registered: May-04 | Man thats cool as hell. Did you ever run it on a track? |
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Silver Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 666 Registered: May-04 | I got kicked off the Atlanta Dragway on an open drag night because I hit 10's and didn't have a rollbar, plus there was a 12 second limitation that night that way the kids wouldn't get killed (either literally or just being beat by another car). I slapped some old Mickey Thompsons my cousin had laying around on the rear wheels for the race, but they weren't great. They had a lot of cars competing, mostly kids, and I really didn't expect the car to be as fast as it was because I had over 100lbs of audio, full upholstery, and stock style shocks, I was just curious how it'd do and if I could win that night as I hadn't raced in quite a while. My first (and only) run, I lined up with a IROC Z-28 on the left lane, hooked and hit a 10.6 something (don't remember the exact millisecond) with a .6 reaction time and when I pulled around for another run they told me I had to leave because it was a 12 second+ night and I didn't have a rollbar, so I wasn't legal. I probably could have hit 9's with the right stuff (tires, suspension, cut down the weight). The car had a top loader 4 speed beefed up and 4.11 rear gears, detroit locker 9" Ford rear end. The only change I made was that I custom fabricated subframe connectors so the motor wouldn't rip the unibody in half. SWEEEEETTTT car, I miss it now. Just something about lopey cams and beefy mufflers that makes a car masculine, that's why I never understood the Honda thing, they suck all the testosterone out of a car. |
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Silver Member Username: JayjPost Number: 242 Registered: May-04 | LOL that's awesome man. I hear ya about those little mitsubishi and hondas. These kids here think those little cars are the baddest thing on the highways. I see them here everyday getting pulled over just because of the looks. When I see that I just laugh my @ss off and drive by in my Z71. Its just so crazy most kids today wouldn't know what to do with a big block 454 under their hood besides kill themselves. I've been looking at a 81 Z28 camaro haven't thought about what kind of motor would work well in their with it. The guy wants 2500 for it looks great but the motor is gone in it. Really wish I could get it fixed but I think he dogged it a little to much. I guy put a tune port 350 4 bolt in it and it ran insane. If I get I'll prolly just find a 350 crate engine and drop in it and do a little restoration on and sat it up like Glass does with that Charger lol. Anyway I still want to thank you again for the recommendations on those Cerwin Vegas they sound so sweet. |
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AMERICANCARS Unregistered guest | Tell me something. Do you guys think that a huge V8 engine with a 5.0 or 5.7 liters (Mustang, Camaro, Firebird), that only puts out 300-350 hp is a good engine? Technologically advanced? Or a friggin V12 8.0L that puts out only 400hp (Viper)? You know what, no offense but, american engines' suck. Honda may not be the best out there but they can get over 100hp per liter, and still outlive american engines. That's not even getting into Italian or German engines. That's like that retarded Audiobahn 30in sub that needs a sh!tload of power to reach an X-max and SPL that subs with less than half that can reach. You may laugh at suped up Hondas driven by some kids (I also do!) but I also laugh at folks that drive by with suped up Chevys, Fords and Pontiacs thinking they have awesome cars. Well that's only for people that don't know any better. Don't get me wrong, I like classic american cars as much as the rest of you, but I do know how to value quality engines. Engine designs that make a difference and contribute to technological advance. So don't knock Hondas engines cuz it makes you guys look like you don't have a clue on what you are talkin' about. Sorry if I offended anybody. |
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Bronze Member Username: GrmncrsnbrVA Post Number: 99 Registered: Jun-04 | Im sorry but honda has a lot of work to do before they can make a quality engine. The reason they last so long is because of there lack of torque. You can only put so much in them until the are basically worthless. American cars are all about the torque which is why they dont last as long. The more torque output the more wear on the engine. Germans have a decent balance keeping torque and HP about even but they just have flaws that need to be worked out within the first year. Any car can last as long as you want it to, its just a matter of taking good care of it. Oh and my dream car is either a split window vette or a 69 camaro ss 350 mmmmmmmm rumble rumble rumble |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 3650 Registered: Dec-03 | " Technologically advanced? Or a friggin V12 8.0L that puts out only 400hp (Viper)?" try a Hennessey Venom some time. same SRT V10, tuned up a bit, and driving about 650BHP. No Honda is going to come close to that car in handling or flat out aceleration. " Honda may not be the best out there but they can get over 100hp per liter, and still outlive american engines." funny, since the Honda Civic is the "die hard" beater Honda, and it's engines never seem to last beyond 200K miles. I have a Jeep with over 210K miles on it now, and all I've ever replaced are brakes, a starter, and a water pump. Oh, and fluids, filters, etc. I have a '66 Dodge with the original V8 in it, adn another with a V8 I'd put up against any of your Hondas. 500HP at the street N/A, over 750HP sprayed. I can also park your Honda in the trunk of that car, and still outrun any Toyota. Not to mention, surprise! It can handle, too. Ever heard of Classic "Pro Touring" class muscle cars? What you've also neglected to mention, with your apparently limited knowledge of building a motor, is that more displacement means more torque, and more cylinders means less work per piston, and lower rev limits, so less wear on the motor. a V8 will always outlast an i4 or even a V6 or i6 when it comes to durability. Just because you can squeeze a lot of power from a 4cyl motor doesn't mean it'll last as long as a V8 with the same power to weight ratio, nor will it have anywhere CLOSE to the low end torque. Here's another lesson for you: Torque moves mass. " I also laugh at folks that drive by with suped up Chevys, Fords and Pontiacs thinking they have awesome cars. Well that's only for people that don't know any better." oh man, you really are clueless. I'll laugh just as hard when I drive by you in my 38 year old car that's worth more than your house. I'm curious to hear what you drive that's so much better than a tuner or a classic muscle car. Mom's minivan? On the bright side, you can fit a lot of subs in one of those.. around the diapers. hehe Ok honestly, I laugh at the fords, chevys, and pontiacs too.. but that's because I drive a Mopar. hahaha Seriously though, you'd be amazed at some of the tech that goes into rodded V8s now. electronic ignitions, MPFI, forced induction of every kind from roots blowers to centrifugal superchargers, screw blowers, two and three stage NO2 in both wet and dry systems, even twin turbochargers. Just about everything you see in Imports can be found in the modern muscle scene too. My 426 hemi is all '66 tech, but the 440ci motor was designed by Herb McCandless (old school Mopar drag racer) and it's pretty modernized. two-stage NO2 250HP wet system from edelbrock Manley H-beam rods 4.150 steel Eagle crank Recon block Ross lightweight pistons/pin with moly rings HRE Blueprint SS heads Adjustable ductile iron rocker gear with new shafts Solid cam/lifters Edelbrock Performer RPM intake Roller timing set and MP black wrinkle valve covers Milodon 7qt oil pan and HV pump 4.380 bore X 4.150 stroke etc etc. motor puts out over 550HP @ 6000rpm on the dynojet. You gotta keep in mind that while tuners are all the new craze, and are a 3 billion dollar a year market right now (tuner bolt-ons) it is still a relatively new market, and the muscle car scene has been around since the 50s. That's a lot of time to perfect the technology. Now, before you try to say Imports are light weight cars, I'd like to point out two comparable examples: 2004 Hyundai Tiburon: 3200lbs curb weight 1957 Chevy Bel Air V8: 3250lbs curb weight now, if you compare the power to weight ratio of the 6cyl tiburon to that of the Chevy, the '57 comes out a bit ahead. If you sup both of them as far as you can, the '57 is going to come out way ahead even by simply dropping in a new Chevy big block crate motor. one weekend of work, and blam, you're pushing a classic with over 500HP at the street, and over 500lb-ft of torque! Talk about a neck snapper there.. Anyway, I appreciate tuners, to a point.. but I think it's gotten over-commercialized and people seem to think these tuners are a lot more than they really are. These kids get excited about 250 horsepower from a 2500 pound car. Drifting? oversteer is impressive? I can blow the tires off of my car in one go if I really want to bother. Is it that impressive? what was the point of all of this again? all in fun- |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 3651 Registered: Dec-03 | Grmncrsnbr, go for the '67 427 stingray, and the '69 396 RS/SS Camaro. terrific cars, and a couple of my favorites, too.. along with any Hemi Mopar, and a '63 427 Shelby Cobra. |
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AMERICANCARS Unregistered guest | Well well well. So what do we have here? Mr. Glasswolf trying to show off. OK, well you may be a Certified car audio installer and have a degree in Electrical Engineering, but you should be carefull of what you say when you get out of your speciality, because you may be arguing with someone that possibly knows a little more than you when it comes to Mechanical Engineering. So you wanna roll with the big boys? Let's roll. Point number one: I never said that Hondas were the best cars on the market, nore that they were the best car manufacturer on the planet. "Honda may not be the best out there but they can get over 100hp per liter, and still outlive american engines" This is true my freind Glasswolf. For example the VTEC engine: 1.8L with 210 bhp and 18.5 Nxm (do the math, cuz I still don't know why the US still doesn't use the I.S. units). That's over 100 bhp per liter. As for reliability....don't even get me started on the reliabilty of american cars, there is simply no comparison possible. Still, like I said, Honda is not the best out there (best depending on what caracteristic(s) you take into account. Point number two: "...funny, since the Honda Civic is the "die hard" beater Honda, and it's engines never seem to last beyond 200K miles. I have a Jeep with over 210K miles on it now, and all I've ever replaced..." It all depends on what's under the hood, and how you treat it. A Civic in your hands will probably do the same as your Jeep if you treat them the same. Even a reliable engine, under negligent hands will not last long. "...I have a '66 Dodge with the original V8 in it, adn another with a V8 I'd put up against any of your Hondas. 500HP at the street N/A, over 750HP sprayed..." Now what Dodge is that? Because the Dodge with the best specs (stock) pre Viper is the 68 Dodge Dart Hemi with 425hp and 316.9kw. Oh, and by the way, Honda doesn't make 400 hp cars, nor do they need to. But here are a few that do and I won't have any trouble with whatever 66 or 96 or whatever you want: How about my stock M5? 400hp; 370 ftxlb? I don't think that after you stop that big @ss trunk of yours from sliding from side to side that you can keep up. And that's on a strait away cuz if I get you on an F1 track.....well you can imagine can't you Glasswolf? "...you'd be amazed at some of the tech that goes into rodded V8s now. electronic ignitions, MPFI, forced induction of every kind from roots blowers to centrifugal superchargers, screw blowers, two and three stage NO2 in both wet and dry systems, even twin turbochargers.." Well that's rodding. You know one back in college we rodded a 1.0 L engine to debit almost 140hp. So what? It blew in a week. The point of market engine design is to make the best engine and for it to last. When you rodd engines, you decrease the life expectancy of your engine. Of course that when you rod engine that were oversized and under pushed, you get some leverage. But why the hell would you oversize an engine in the first place? Poor engineering is the answer my freind. "What you've also neglected to mention, with your apparently limited knowledge of building a motor, is that more displacement means more torque, and more cylinders means less work per piston, and lower rev limits, so less wear on the motor. a V8 will always outlast an i4 or even a V6 or i6 when it comes to durability. Just because you can squeeze a lot of power from a 4cyl motor doesn't mean it'll last as long as a V8 with the same power to weight ratio, nor will it have anywhere CLOSE to the low end torque. Here's another lesson for you: Torque moves mass." First of all, I don't think I need any lessons from an Electric Engineer on what torque is. Second, I also don't need you to "explain" engine theory or design. Stick to car audio. OK, torque. Torque=Fxd. Pure and simple. Force (F) is what moves mass, not Torque. Torque is a parameter that gives us a relationship between a Force that is applied to move a mass and the distance that the mass moves. More diplacement means more torque. Hate to break it to you but displacement is volume. Don't mix things up. you can have two cilders that have the same displacement, and one resuts in a higher torque value because it has a larger arm distance. Now that an 8 cilider engine always outlasts smaller cilinder engines? Depends. If it's those poorly engineered stock engines, mabey, mabey not. Depends on what kind of abuse you put it too. But again, let's not forget that they are oversized and underdeveloped. But I garantee that if you push those engines over the 100hp/liter mark, they will blow in little time. That's the difference my freind between poorly designed engins and the rest. Now when you start talkin Nitro and the rest...well that's drag racin, and that's not stock or even mods or tuning. Thats like adding Gasoline to light a barbacue fire. Part two coming soon....... |
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Silver Member Username: GrmncrsnbrVA Post Number: 108 Registered: Jun-04 | Very nice taste in old cars glass. I personally am a modder of my VW though. I love my VW and will make it last as long as i can. Stock bolt on blah blah you know how we do. I know guys who have 76 rabbits with the originial engine moddified and over 200k miles so saying modding will destroy an engine is also wrong. The bottom line is if you do things do them right and dont forget about the basic things that need to be taken car of such as oil changes. Car care isnt hard. Its all in a book they give you and if you cant read you shouldnt be driving in the first place. One main thing to remember is thatif you upgrade one thing best bet is that you need to change a few other things in order to make it all run smoothly and correctly. Say for my car i would "chip" unill i have a better intake and an exhaust because the chipp is gonna cause the engine to need better air flow. Allonf with those i would look for a front mount intercooler because my turbo will end up getting hotter with more air flow, cooling that air down will help keep the engine from getting quite as hot and causing missfires. this is all the reason why companies make staged kits. They know what you need to upgrade so that your engine doesnt suffer. American cars if you dont mind me asking what area of mechanical are you in? Im an aspiring ME and am looking into engine design for the european market. Any advice you can give? thanks dude. You kids play nice now oh and why is this going on in a car audio forum hahahahaha |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 3656 Registered: Dec-03 | "This is true my freind Glasswolf. For example the VTEC engine: 1.8L with 210 bhp and 18.5 Nxm" nope. they put out 130HP. I looked at buying a honda as a daily driver. I just researched them. They don't put out anywhere close to 210. I've built a few cars. I know enough about them to know how they work and how to get the most out of an engine. That applies to both power and longevity. How many cars have you restored? "That's over 100 bhp per liter. As for reliability....don't even get me started on the reliabilty of american cars, there is simply no comparison possible. Still, like I said, Honda is not the best out there (best depending on what caracteristic(s) you take into account." I gave you case in point. the 1.8L honda motor lasts 200,000 miles on average, stock. That's pathetic for reliability in my book. They have inherantly weak block designs. There's finally ONE aftermarket offering to replacethose, and that offering is $11,000 for the new block. Now, my 440 block which is also over 100HP per liter, was cast in 1966, is still running strong, and still does less work per cylinder, giving it a much better lifespan. (7.2L @ 550HP + 250HP NO2) If you're an engineer, you should realize that an i4 and V8 both producing the same amount of power, will show that the V8 will last a lot longer. Your rhetoric got old after the blaupunkt and capacitor threads. I'm abandoning this thread after this post, because I don't see any point to it. Sorry. "It all depends on what's under the hood, and how you treat it. A Civic in your hands will probably do the same as your Jeep if you treat them the same. Even a reliable engine, under negligent hands will not last long." Ok, I agree mistreating any car will drastically shorten it's life, but some engines are still designed and built better than others. All engines are not created equally. My jeep with it's 4.0L i6 is an example of a motor that many consider to be bulletproof in design and implementation. They even make good performance motors for off-road applications. The 1.8L vtec you mentioned is notorious for failing at 200,000 miles as noted already, or very close to it, no matter how it's treated. Cheap cars are made like appliances these days, with a throw away mentality. It's sad, but true. Things are made with built in failure in mind so people buy new ones. If nobody ever bought new cars because the old ones never died, the market would be hurting. Only so many people buy new cars just for the sake of blowing the dough. "Now what Dodge is that? Because the Dodge with the best specs (stock) pre Viper is the 68 Dodge Dart Hemi with 425hp and 316.9kw." 1966 426 hemi charger, 425HP, 490lb-ft tq, and another 1966 Charger with a Herb McCandless 440ci V8. The 440 is no more stock than most of the tuners running around. I never said it came off the lot like it sits now. Everything from the motor to the suspension to the A/C unit is aftermarket. So are the disc brakes, the electric 1800psi master cylinder, etc. "How about my stock M5? 400hp; 370 ftxlb?" 400HP at the crank, yes. weak and overpriced, but cushy I'm sure. How about some quarter times? Until you're in the tens, don't even step up to the line, mon ami. "Well that's rodding. You know one back in college we rodded a 1.0 L engine to debit almost 140hp. So what?" so.. you just proved my point. small motors with high power don't hold up. there's no replacement for displacement. Let's look at this in a very simple way: if these high tech i4 motors are so great, imagine the same motors with 8 cylinders. Twice the power. That's what a modern V8 is. Twice the motor. "The point of market engine design is to make the best engine and for it to last. When you rodd engines, you decrease the life expectancy of your engine." now you're trying to back-peddle and claim you're only talking about stock motors? ok, whatever. If you build a V8 right, you can get tremendous torque and horsepower out of it, with hundreds of thousands of miles of use. It's all a matter of knowing how to build an engine. "First of all, I don't think I need any lessons from an Electric Engineer on what torque is. Second, I also don't need you to "explain" engine theory or design. Stick to car audio." hahaha now you're getting miffy because you got put in your place. The attempted insults don't do you any justice either. "Torque is a parameter that gives us a relationship between a Force that is applied to move a mass and the distance that the mass moves." Exactly my point. Torque is what's going to give you a quick car. You'll never get the same torque from an i4 you will from a big block V8. I'm well aware of how to get torque from a motor by stroking it out. You'll never get great torque from a small engine though. Not compared to a good eight. forced induction isn't all about drag racing, either. plenty of cars come stock from the dealership with turbo (nearly everyone), twin turbo (toyota, nissan), superchargers (GM), even roots blowers (ford, dodge.) don't bother with part two. you already wasted enough of everyones' time. Grmncrsnbr, you're spot on there. most of the engines I see damaged by kids are from things like a blown stock manifold with they try to run forced induction, or throwing a rod by tampering with the rev limiters. Stupid sh*t mostly. If you build the car right the first time, you shouldn't ever have a problem. I've been looking at adding a cage and a few other things I'd need, and getting into bracket racing with the Charger. Looks like a fun catagory, and a nice change from pro street and outlaw classes. |
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Silver Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 672 Registered: May-04 | This guy obviously doesn't know what a TORQUE CURVE is. Horsepower only occurs at a single RPM point, look at a 200 hp honda vs. a 200 hp V-8 and the honda dyno chart will look like an upside down V. The point is there are many V8's out there making over 100hp per litre, it's just that a car with over 1000hp isn't exactly driveable. That's why stock performance V8's are in the 400's for horsepower, you think that government regulations would allow a 800-1000hp car end up in the hands of some teenage driver on the street? You're arguing a stupid point. Look at top fuel dragsters, 1/4 mile times in the 3's, Aluminum V-8's pushing them, not 4 bangers. The average torque on the 427 I built was over 600 lb-ft. from 2000rpm-6000rpm NATURALLY ASPIRATED, I'd like to see a little Civic accomplish half of that without tons of boost. Hell, I'd like to see a Honda that hits 300 lb. ft of torque in the 2000 rpm range naturally aspirated PERIOD. Also think about racing essentials, a front wheel drive car is poor for racing, as it depends on the weight shifting on the back wheels to aid traction. The front end will lift up, and since your lifting your driveline with it, it won't grip the road. I just bought my dad's all original stock Chevy 83 C-10 truck with 350,000 miles on it, so don't say stock american V-8's don't last. Torque is forcexdistance, but the more displacement (aka the more fuel and air the car can move equals more force, the more leverage, stroke, equals more force as well) the more power. Basically this "force" you're talking about is compression, and only goes so far before the engine detonates and needs racing fuel. If you want to pay that much for fuel, go ahead. My 427 ran just fine on 93 octane. Compression only goes so far, if the engine has 10:1 compression (I'm talking static compression, not the compression ratio) but can't move fuel out, then it isn't doing any good. If the fuel doesn't get there, pressure won't build up. So you go ahead and add 30 lb's of boost to raise the static compression, that's the quickest way to kill an engine. My car was a 427 making 800 hp, so since that motor is in the 7 Liter range I was at about 115 hp/liter, you act like it is impossible. No telling what kind of power it would have made with a blower, probably close to 1200hp. I didn't even build it for racing as I've stated above, it was in street trim with full upholstery, over 100 lbs of audio and stock style suspension, If I wanted to race I'd get either fiberglass or carbon kevlar body on it and strengthen the chassis. I had the car for 7 years and put over 100,000 miles on it b/f I sold it, it still ran like the day I built it, it's still running great now even though I can't give you the mileage on it. Actually, the engine I had was comparable to a Honda, SOHC, custom ground cams were about the same duration and lift as a Honda, the big difference was the fuel delivery and ignition, which was old school carburetors compared to your fuel injection and I had MSD ignition, and it made more hp/liter than a Honda, so just shut up. Also had WAYYYY better torque. I'll rejoice at the fact that when a Honda dies at 200,000 miles and you're spending thousands for new electronics and a new motor, I'll get my 200,000+ and when it does wear out I'll just take it to the shop, bore it out, replace the pistons and rings and keep going. |
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Silver Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 673 Registered: May-04 | By the way, people are quite aware of your hp/litre copouts and all your excuses for losing a race. I've been to many import/domestic drag nights and not once has the import class taken the win.  |
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Bronze Member Username: FlashfloodMN Post Number: 19 Registered: Jun-04 | I dont know much about cars (or car stereos for that matter), but I know this for sure... a 4.0l mopar engine is one of the most reliable engines ever made...and there is no honda engine that can match up to it. Thats coming from the mouth of a Jeep mechanic, but none the less. |
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AMERICANCARS Unregistered guest | You guys are right on one thing...there will be no part two because none of you know anything about phisics. Saying that "compression" is the "force" I was talking about?!!! Do any of you even know what "force" is? Or what "compression" is for that matter? Do you even know the difference between the two? Torque curve? I have had to make several of them. Have you even seen one? They are all "upside down" U's and not V's. As for where tha max torque is, well i v8's as well as deisel engines, it the max torque is at lower RPM's, wich is why everybody loves V8's for drag racing. Plus how is someone that is stoopid enough to be comparing 400hp cars to 200 hp Hondas in terms of figures? I never said that they could compare head to head. What I said was that they were technologically more advanced and better engineered. Glasswolf, if you are an Engineer an as smart as you think, than you should know that from an engineering standpoint, oversizing and underachiving a product is not a sign of "well disigned". It's a sign for not knowing any better or designing "safe products". Obviously you cannot get the same torque from an engine half the size. At least not on the same terms. What I said was comparing two engines with a 100hp per liter or more ratio. You sould open your eyes before answering because first of all I what I said was "... Honda may not be the best out there but they can get over 100hp per liter, and still outlive american engines..." I didn't say they could outlive oversized and under acheiving V8's. It's obvious that an engine that is less stressed will outlive an overstressed engine. Put both on the same hp per volume displacement unit, and then you can compare. "....now you're trying to back-peddle and claim you're only talking about stock motors?.." Where in my thread was it stated that I was talking Drag racing and modified cars? Tell me. You, my freind Glass were the one who started talkin about NO2 and company. Not me. I said that american engine's were not as advanced as others. This is a fact. You know what? When you decide you want to dicuss coherent engineering priciples, then you can answer this tread. Until then, do not show your lack of knowlege by re-stating he-said she-said's that you talk about at drag races and read about in mod magazines. It makes you look pretty lame, especially if someone knows more than you. By the way you may want to read this and learn something. And I am not the german guy from the Blaunkpunkt thread. I hate german electronics. So don't mix things up bub. www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0307_vtec/ |
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AnYno Unregistered guest | The '00 S2000's 2.0L, 11.0:1, DOHC VTEC four-banger (above) developed 240 net horsepower at 8,300 rpm, the highest output per liter of any normally aspirated production automobile engine ... yet the engine was one of the first to fully meet California's LEV (Low Emission Vehicle) smog standards. The two-seat pocket rocket had a 9,000-rpm rev limit, accelerating 0-60 in under 6 seconds. www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0307_vtec/ |
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Bronze Member Username: 03exploderChattanooga, Tennessee U S of A Post Number: 24 Registered: Jun-04 | I have a 66' Pontiac GTO 389 Tri-Power. It's 6.5 liter but every time a rice-burner pulls up beside me and rev's up his weedeater. hes not thinking about how many hp his car puts out per liter. cause when all 3 2 barrels kick in all he can see his a liscence plate that reads "Red Goat" |
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Bronze Member Username: 03exploderChattanooga, Tennessee U S of A Post Number: 25 Registered: Jun-04 | I have a 66' Pontiac GTO 389 Tri-Power. It's 6.5 liter but every time a rice-burner pulls up beside me and rev's up his weedeater. hes not thinking about how many hp his car puts out per liter. cause when all 3 2 barrels kick in all he can see is a liscence plate that reads "Red Goat" |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 3750 Registered: Dec-03 | yeah I like how putzboy up there accuses me of reading hotrod magazines (which I've never actually done.. even when I was 14 like he seems to be) yet he's pasting links to hotrod magazine's website. hahaha not even worth replying to him anymore. his response to everything is that every V8 in the world is oversized and underpowered. He's probably never even seen an American V-8 in person. Typical Eurotrash. When I open all 8 barrels on my twin Carter 4bbl carbs and rev up the 426, the ground shakes. The 440 is even worse. My lugnuts require more torque than his car can produce in reality, since he talks more trash than an "environmental engineer." I doubt he actually even owns a car. Sure the Honda produces 240 horses.. at what? 8500RPM? By the time you even SEE that high of an RPM range, I'll be at the next light, waiting... who cares about high RPM powerbands? They're useless unless you happen to be racing CART or Champ cars. In real world street performance, it's useless. I hit 490lb-ft of tq @ 4000rpm and 425HP @ 5000prm. Useful ranges, and both curves climb higher if I go into the red. Welcome to an even torque curve from a car with a real, powerful, reliable motor. |
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New member Username: SiryoinkVA Post Number: 5 Registered: Jun-04 | I used to hate ricer cars until I got a good deal on an Eclipse for a project car. Now I've got a muscle car and a ricer. My 82 Camaro has a v8/350 5.7L w/ a 900cfm holly carb and aluminum headers that produces close to 300hp and enough torque to burn through a set of tires. I've also got a 95 Eclipse w/ a 2.0DOHC, cold air intake, custom exhaust, overbored TB, and front/rear strut tower brace mods. The handling on this car is beautiful, and it makes ~175hp (just 30 over stock). As a daily driver, the Eclipse is a lot of fun and one of the best cars I've ever had. I love both of these cars, but there's no way in hell I'd put the Eclipse against the Camaro in a drag. I usually drive that Camaro on Sat nights just to go out onto the main strip here and make fun of the hondas  |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 3757 Registered: Dec-03 | sounds like a nice camaro. I help work on a friend's 82 pro-street camaro here as well. fun cars. he's got two bullets for it. a chromed out rodded 350 and a pure alcohol 468ci bigblock that's balanced and blueprinted. The car is fully caged, 5 pt harnesses, gutted, tubbed, etc. fuel cells, all the goodies. It's fun to stick the strip gears in the back and light up the slicks on it. Not too good on the street with the full locker rear end though. doesn't like corners at all with that 9" rear. He's got more practical cars for daily use though. a few 79' anniv. firebirds, a 454 el camino, a couple of old vettes and a newer 90s one, and a few GMC silverados. He's got all the fun toys. haha Been a gearhead his whole life though. All he does is go to work, or work on his cars. At least I get to use his lifts though! Having tools is one thing, but having a lift... *drool* |
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New member Username: SiryoinkVA Post Number: 7 Registered: Jun-04 | Having use of a lift at any time really does come in handy. I work in the IST field, but I was raised around a garage. My father is a mechanic and owns his own shop. He rebuilt the engines in both my Camaro and Eclipse, and I installed all the aftermarket parts and mods on the cars. Your friend's Camaro sounds awesome. Wouldn't want to be the one responsible for putting gas in that 468, but I'd imagine that anyone who can say he has "a couple of vettes" can afford it. ^^ |
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Silver Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 691 Registered: May-04 | The horsepower per liter excuse is the biggest copout for people who can't deal with the fact that they can't make as much power. If you were 100 lbs and could benchpress 200 lbs, and I were 350 lbs and could benchpress 400, what does that prove? Are you gonna come up to me and say I'm not as good as you because I'm not as "efficient per pound of body weight as you are". No, you'd ball up in a fetal position when I kick your puny little a$$. You could rev a car with 10 lb ft of torque to 50,000 rpm and make 91 hp, so what does horsepower prove? Do you think an engine producing 10 lb. ft of torque would actually attain a 50,000 rpm limit, because it'd never get there, it doesn't have the power. It's all about torque, horsepower would be nothing without torque, you seem to be putting physics into this, so I assume you actually know the equation for horsepower (hp= torque x rpm/5454). Compression creates force, the more compression, the greater the force will be once the mixture is ignited. What were you saying the force came from, that little hamster turning your flywheel? So you call a motor that is literally struggling to squeeze every bit of potential out of a motor good design? ANY motor company could put out a motor making 100hp/liter, but what does it matter when it's a 1 liter motor? Where's the torque at? Have you ever thought about the fact that V8's don't need 100hp per liter to get where they're going? V8's are useable in every day driving as well as performance applications, you'll never see a Honda towing a boat, camper, etc. because they're too weak. There have been many V8's that came off the line with 100hp/liter, and they didn't have to do it at 8300 rpm like an anemic little 4 banger, they got there in the 5000's. Face it, Hondas drive like absolute crap, they're weak, anemic, jerky little cars, they drive like a car with a lopey cam minus the horsepower and torque benefits. So American engines aren't as advanced? Prove it. They're all designed by humans, Honda has used and still use a lot of American technologies both in the past and present, early Hondas used (and some still do use) hemi style heads, four cylinders were the first engines produced, variable camshaft technology (your beloved VTEC) has been used for a LONG time, the electronics in cars all accomplish the same purpose. Honda has contributed nothing to the car world, maybe that's why they haven't won Engine of the Year. They're sheep, not pioneers. Wow, the almighty S2000 rockets to 60 in under 6 seconds. Please man, that's inherently weak, especially for a featherweight two seat roadster. Cars from the 60's were killing that with 4000 lb cars, you'd think with 40+ years under our belts we'd be able to destroy that. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 697 Registered: Dec-03 | man i read this whole thread. the rice burner guy must just feal inferior and has to try and show his muscle per pound thing. who cares. it all depends on what your trying to do with the car. if you want to go fast in a straight line get a v8 powered muscle car. if you want to burn um up in the curves and live through it get a rice burner. some cars are just better at doing certain things it doesn't necasarily mean one is better. and yes to a certain extent you can have both. just depends on where you want to put your comprimises. to each their own. |
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AMERICANCARS Unregistered guest | Kegger: Best post. Definately smarter than the others. Jonathan: Your analogies of benchpressing are pretty lame and unconsiquent, nor do they have any pertainment to the arguement. You obvoiusly have some limited knowledge on a few Physics parameters or equations for that matter, but tend to mix everything up. If engine design was as simple as analising one puny equation, even Iraq would build engines. I assume you have no clue what combustion analysis is? Or Mechanical stress dimensioning? Or how compressors work or what they do? Or how to design a turbine? Or the finite element method for calculating internal component stress and strain? Or how to solve the Navier-Stokes diferential equations to calculate air intake flows? You people haven't got a clue. And I never said that Hondas were the best, nor that I would drag race them against V8's double their size. Glasswolf: You are the person on this forum I am most dissapionted with. I thought that your experience overseas had tought you something. With all your experience in car audio, and forums, how can you post crap like that? Do you even know what you are saying or how that makes you look? Tell me something, do you even read your own post before posting? Whatever. And by the way, I never said that all V8's were underpowered and oversized; I said that almost American V8's were underpowered and oversized, stock. And I stand by everything I posted because I stuck to fact and kept a coherent argument. I never got into the "Oh my car is so hot that it'll smoke yours anyday"! You know what Glasswolf, you sound like some of those kids who post here yapping about how there sound system will blow everyone away. Very disapointed. I never thought you would get down on that level. Oh and by the way, the link I posted is a the Hotrod mag site because they do have some good tech articles (because they actually have good Engineers writing for them as well as multiple source info) and because it is an American mag, an there for less subjectable to be associated with "Eurotrash" our "Rice car lovers". |
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AMERICANCARS Unregistered guest | Kegger: Best post. Definately smarter than the others. Jonathan: Your analogies of benchpressing are pretty lame and unconsiquent, nor do they have any pertainment to the arguement. You obvoiusly have some limited knowledge on a few Physics parameters or equations for that matter, but tend to mix everything up. If engine design was as simple as analising one puny equation, even Iraq would build engines. I assume you have no clue what combustion analysis is? Or Mechanical stress dimensioning? Or how compressors work or what they do? Or how to design a turbine? Or the finite element method for calculating internal component stress and strain? Or how to solve the Navier-Stokes diferential equations to calculate air intake flows? You people haven't got a clue. And I never said that Hondas were the best, nor that I would drag race them against V8's double their size. Glasswolf: You are the person on this forum I am most dissapionted with. I thought that your experience overseas had tought you something. With all your experience in car audio, and forums, how can you post crap like that? Do you even know what you are saying or how that makes you look? Tell me something, do you even read your own post before posting? Whatever. And by the way, I never said that all V8's were underpowered and oversized; I said that almost all American V8's were underpowered and oversized, stock. And I stand by everything I posted because I stuck to fact and kept a coherent argument. I never got into the "Oh my car is so hot that it'll smoke yours anyday"! You know what Glasswolf, you sound like some of those kids who post here yapping about how there sound system will blow everyone away. Very disapointed. I never thought you would get down on that level. Oh and by the way, the link I posted is a the Hotrod mag site because they do have some good tech articles (because they actually have good Engineers writing for them as well as multiple source info) and because it is an American mag, an there for less subjectable to be associated with "Eurotrash" our "Rice car lovers". |
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RACER Unregistered guest | http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html Here's one to read. And learn. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 3771 Registered: Dec-03 | don't bother. every time you prove his sniveling arguments wrong, he'll change the subject again, or try to shift his argument and make himself feel better again. if he didn't want anyone to use honda as an example, he shouldn't hve mentioned honda in his opening argument. he needs to study logic and forensics after he goes back to school to learn about applying anything he may have learned about engineering from reading articles on hotrod websites. |
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MAZDARX-8 Unregistered guest | Um, this years engine of the year was Mazda's Renisis Wankel rotary engine that's installed in the magnificent Mazda RX-8.(Another rice car?)Do you know what a rotary engine is Jonny? |
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New member Username: SiryoinkVA Post Number: 8 Registered: Jun-04 | The Wankel rotary engine's been around in the RX-7 for years. That's nothing new, and its a rehash of the same arguement. The Wankel rotary engine's design produces a lot of hp per litre, but its still not going to create enough torque to tow a boat. I believe the saying goes "There's no replacement for displacement." |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 3782 Registered: Dec-03 | yeah I'm familiar with the RX8. not a bad car. Not exactly a ricer. It's actually a Ford by any other name. The mazda 6 is built on Ford's C-platform. (granted, not a wankel engine in the 6) |
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Silver Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 692 Registered: May-04 | Yes, I know Mazda won it, by the way, they're owned by Ford. I never said they didn't, I recall saying that HONDA hasn't won an award. Ford won one for their modular V8. A rotary engine is not a 4 cylinder by any means, no comparison to a Honda. First you claim "Honda may not be the best out there but they can get over 100hp per liter, and still outlive american engines." Then "And by the way, I never said that all V8's were underpowered and oversized; I said that almost all American V8's were underpowered and oversized, stock." Then you say: "I didn't say they could outlive oversized and under acheiving V8's" So I guess American V8's can outlast Hondas then. You're the one bringing up the "per liter" load of crap. Really, in that sense, a 4.6L V8 in a 2004 Ford Mustang gets 25 mpg highway. The 2004 Honda Accord with a 2.4L gets a 34 mpg highway. So, the Mustang is 2.2L larger than the Honda engine, or 91% larger. So, the Honda's gas mileage should be 91% better, right? Wrong. So the Honda would have to get about 65 mpg to get the "fuel efficiency per liter" of the Ford. Is it anywhere close to 65 mpg? Nope. So I guess the Honda is just some inefficient car that has crappy gas mileage by your statements. So much for apples to apples. I hardly consider hp/liter a coherent argument. I see nothing proving your "knowledge" as a Mechanical Engineer, you'd be a poor one at best, all you're doing is throwing very, very FEW of the principles required in engine design. You've put no engineering principles into this thread at all, you probably have no clue about the design of a Honda or certain V8's at that. "If engine design was as simple as analising one puny equation, even Iraq would build engines" Prove your point, you've only given that lame hp/liter equation, and that torque=forcexdistance. I never claimed to be a Mechanical Engineer, but your claims lead me to call your bullsh*t because you haven't offered a single principle. I do know physics, but mechanical stress points, airflow analysis, and turbine and compressor knowledge will get you nowhere if you were asked to design an engine tomorrow. Take that info you posted out of your textbook and use it. |
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AMERICANCARS Unregistered guest | Mabey this will shut you up Johnathan: See how many american engines are on this list. And glasswolf, as for "Eurotrash"? Pathetic. http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/previouswin.html |
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AMERICANMAN Unregistered guest | http://motortrend.com/features/news/news_030604_ieoty/ Not even one american engine on the list. Why is that? Lot's of Hondas though for a company that "contributed nothing to the car world, maybe that's why they haven't won Engine of the Year. They're sheep". As for Mazda bieng owned by Ford. That is true, but the RX-8 is all Japaneese designed. The Mazda 6 has some chassis design from Ford, but only the deisel engines are shared. Gasoline are only Mazda. By the way, Ford is half European in Engineering. And Ford does have good chasis and suspentions as well as excelent deisel engines. Nowadays alot of companys co-own others. I'm thinking of Nissan which is owned by Renault, Mazda, Mercury by Ford, Lamborghini by Audi, Ferrari, Alfa Romeo and Lancia (if I remember correctly Lancia go by the name of Sterling in the US) by Fiat, Rover and Acura by Honda, Chrysler and Daimler (Mercedes group) have a joint venture (wich includes Jeep), VW own Seat, the list goes on and on. This is a common market priciple. As for engineering Jonathan this is what I have to say: POINT ONE: You don't even know me, who the hell are you to say if I am a good or bad engineer? What I will say that I AM A MECHANICAL ENGINEER, (Robotics) and being one alows me to broaden my scope of vision when I analise Mechanical Engineering subjects (engine design for example). I also am American, living in Europe. And being one allows me to have a different understanding about the two cultures. And I have had to stick up for alot of american values, especialy subjects pertaining to American foreign policy. So when I read all theese comments about "there's no replacement for displacement" and 20 MPG cars, I tend to remember about how hard it is to explain and defend why my country is in Iraq. To "free" the Iraqi people? I know better. So the displacement arguements tend to disgust me, just a little. We are a leading country. We should be trying to evolve engine design to make smaller, more efficient, but powerfull engines. That's why I value smaller engines. You guys are all hupty dumpty driving your V8's back at home, while I have to stick up for our county every single day. And it's not getting any easier. POINT TWO: I don't need to stick up for Honda, facts stick up for themselvs. I don't own a Honda, nor do I intend to (not to keen on there styling), but I know how to value good engine design and innovation. Can any of you say the same? From your posts, I start to doubt that. But I am willing to be proven wrong. POINT THREE: I didn't mean to insult anybody, my appoligies if I did. Sometimes I go a little overboard. POINT FOUR: Jonathan, if you want to dicuss mechanical engineering equations and parameters, I'll be happy too, but I am posting from memory and not from textbook, but if you want to analyse Thermodynamics (the Carnot (Ideal), Otto cycle, Deisel cycle ect.) or internal cumbustion parameters, I'll be happy to. POINT FIVE: Grmncrsnbr, give me some more info, and I'll be glad to help you if I can. |
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Silver Member Username: GrmncrsnbrVA Post Number: 136 Registered: Jun-04 | Hey I know the carnot cycle hahahaha. Im actually going into my third year at virginia tech. It funny to post this in this thread becasue I want to design engines when I graduate for VW/audi or BMW. I personally am in love with german engineering and I feel I can contribute to the vast capabilities of engines. I plan on joining the hybrid electric vehicle team in the fall in order to further advance my knowledge of emission free engine design. |
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AMERICANMAN Unregistered guest | Hey Grmncrsbr, does your username translate to German cars and.... can't figure out the last part! I'm glad to hear your fascination for engine design, and german car engineering is top line. Just check out the links I posted to see how many catagories BMW and Audi have won. Does Virginia Tech have any protocols with BMW or any motor company? If they do, that is one of the best ways to gain experience. Internships at car factories. That hybrid electric vehicle sounds very interesting! What are the design principles behind it? Does it use an internal combustion engine coupled with an electric induction motor, or is it just an electric motor, solarcharged? At college, we designed a concept car for the Shell Challenge wich was capable of over 500km on 1 liter of fuel! Of course it looked like an tretched egg and was featherweight with a top speed of about 15km/h, but hey! |
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Silver Member Username: GrmncrsnbrVA Post Number: 138 Registered: Jun-04 | german cars and beer We mainly work with ford and GM. This years competiton for HEVT is with GM and they send us a new SUV and we have to make little or no emissions while keeping stock HP and Torque. There is actually a suburban on our campus that was made a few years ago that produces no emissions. The head of the team actually contacted BMW about a job and they didnt believe that we designed the suburban. Granted it lost cargo space because it has a hydrogen fuel cell in the back haha. Im actually trying to go through some people my mom works with in order to get in with VW. Id love to design small quick engines with a lack of stock bolt ons so that the modders out there have something to build upon that will give them amazing performance. But of course to work on the W12 or W8 would be awesome too. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 3802 Registered: Dec-03 | heh I recall something about that. I graduated from VPI with my EE and English degrees, granted that was years ago. "AMERICANCARS" if you don't mean to insult people, try not to make your first post one that's worded as an aggressive attack against others. We were having a pleasant discussion about a couple of cars we've built, and you jump in with your remarks about how they suck. What sort of response did you expect to get other than a heart felt f*ck you!? You remark that I should read my own posts before I send them. I do. I've reworded a number of my replies prior to sending them in efforts to keep this discussion civil. My eurotrash comment was spot on though. You're arrogant and rude. You have no manners nor do you have any idea of how to carry out a rational or logical debate. You are the epitome of why Americans are so disinterested in the EU and the people there. This is the sort of behavior we're grown accustomed to expect from Europeans. Congratulations. You must fit in well. It's a shame you didn't move to the Far East instead. Perhaps they'd have instilled you with a modicum of respect. best of luck in Europe. |
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AMERICANMAN Unregistered guest | Glasswolf. I agree that my first post was worded in a way that was aggressive. But in my previous post, I explained why I feel the way I do about "gas guzzlers". Besides that, the aggressive tone started in the two previous posts before mine knocking "little Hondas and Mitsubishis' ". Well I read that and had an exaggerated reaction. I do agree that Europeans are somewhat arrogant and rude, and some of that probably rubbed off on me. But I tend to think that "Eurotrash" is a very aggressive term to qualify people. Do you have any idea what many Europeans think of Americans? The crap I have to listen to about how arrogant Americans are and how they think that Americans believe that they are the world's police? Many of the posts here represent the epitome of why Europeans are rude and arrogant towards the US. Did you ever think of that? Respect must be earned. That goes both ways. I apologise for my comments on saying that American cars suck, but I do believe, from an engineering standpoint, that the American motor Industry, as well as American society, should change car philosophy. And I do stand by most of what I said. I believe that most of what I stated is correct, except possibly the V8 life expectancy (stock). But under the 2.5 liter mark, American engines are not so hot. Anyway: As for having no manners or ideas of carrying out a rational or logical debate, well my blood boils pretty quick (Latin blood), which tends to clouden logic. Again I apologise. But I do recall that I was not the only one that was rude on this thread, but I do have the balls to admit that at times I was rude. You do have a cool car though. I always liked the charger. My personal favs were the early camaros' and the early Firebirds'. Stingray was also a definite yes. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 733 Registered: Dec-03 | hey noe that is much better guy's all the arguing was pretty pointless. and AMERICANMAN pretty darn big of you to admit that you may have gotten a little hostile and pravoking. and i think GlassWolf was trying his darndest to not get too overly excited. now maybe we can have some rational conversation. i apllaud you for that. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 734 Registered: Dec-03 | the favorite car i owned was 1967 firebird. it had a 70 chevy 350 so i got motor mounts from a camaro. bored 60 over with 11.5 to 1's nice intake and carb with some good headers. also it had a 67 dodge dart dana with 3.91 gears. and a doug nash trans from a newer corvette. sure it wasn't the greatest car ever but i had this during high school in 1984 and it was a lot of fun. went through 4 transes till i got the nash. fairly light car for the horespower. and everything was manual. only ran 1 belt for the alternater/water pump. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 3805 Registered: Dec-03 | fair enough. I don't hold grudges anyway. I adore my hemi charger because it was my father's before it was mine. He bought it prior to serving in Viet Nam which resulted in his eventual death due to exposure to agent orange. I guess the US does act as the world police at times, but we won't get into my views on the corruption of the UN and such. That's a whole different story. The 440 is my project toy. I've owned imports and domestics. They all have their pros and cons. Funny thing is living in Michigan now, you only see imports during tourist season, no joke. I've tried to find one during winter months and it's nearly impossible. No dealerships within an hour of here except for the "big three." and everybody drives a pickup or SUV to get around in the snow. It's rather amusing in a way. The only thing that gets on my nerves about the current tuner community is that nearly everything they do to improve performance is an out of the box internet ordered bolt-on part. With the classics, you had to know how to make everything work together, and fine caress a car into being a serious contender. It was more of an art, and less of a matter of who has fifty grand to dump into mail order parts to make their car faster by spraying more nitrous into it.. *laugh* I suppose it is snobbish to find that annoying, but it just doesn't have the same feeling to have a snap-together pocket rocket as it does to have a muscle car that you labored for countless hours on to turn it into the show piece it is now. It's a big undertaking to do that sort of project.. and when someone thumbs their nose at it, ya tend to take it personally, know what I mean? I appologize if I was out of line. |
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Silver Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 695 Registered: May-04 | Glass, I know what ya mean, I found the 427 block and heads in a junkyard, it's not exactly a motor you can just buy like the other typical domestic motors. AMERICANMAN, I apologize that I insulted your engineering skills, it's just that there are countless tuner cars in my town and I hear the hp/liter thing all the time and it just disgusts me, that claim just hit a nerve. I also tend to get a bit hot-headed. I'm mainly sticking up for older American engines, the good cast iron V8's, even the I6's. I do agree that most new American engines suck (ESPECIALLY the 4 cylinder engines) I think a lot of the Honda hype comes from the fact that America used to make very reliable cars, Americas cars have slumped, where in Honda's history, they've only improved. I remember when nearly all Japanese cars were crap, but they've gotten better with experience and technological improvements. I don't think you should be ashamed of American V8's (not the older ones anyway) or have to make an excuse about why they get 20 mpg, I mean the quality American V8's were mainly from the 60's, if there weren't improvements in fuel efficiency and engine performance/size ratio since then it would be really sad. Not that these V8's aren't capable of producing the same power/size of motor, but at the time it just wasn't needed. In the 60's gas was readily available to anyone for a cheap price, and the EPA wasn't an issue, so they really didn't need to build hugely efficient cars. Necessity is the mother of invention. I didn't just diss Honda out of the blue, though, my wife has had 3 Hondas, with the one lasting the longest making just the 225,000 mile mark. They all have had their share of problems, both the 1993 she had and the 1998 had to have the heads replaced, one due to an oil control problem to the valvetrain and one from a blown head gasket, overheating and warping the head. (Both of these were Accords) the 2003 CR-V she has now is having the transmission replaced, the car only has a little over 12,000 miles off the parking lot (still under warranty, though  don't have to pay for it). She's done with Honda. I have had countless little quirky maintenance problems from the suspension, alternator, regulator, electrical problems, overheating, etc. and it just frustrates me. She's not an aggressive driver by any means, and I maintain cars well, I change oil every 3500 miles, the air filter is changed as needed since I live down a dirt driveway, I check the water level at least once a week when I wash the cars. I have a lot of friends who've had their share of problems from them, too, the biggest being the heads, overheating, and transmission trouble. Maybe Hondas just aren't made to be run in Georgia, who knows? The 1983 Chevy C10 I just got from my dad has over 315,000 miles on it and he has had no problems ever, it doesn't burn oil, and runs fantastic. The only problem he had was from a frayed wire going to the ignition module 3 years ago, very simple and cheap fix, though, not too bad for a 22 year old truck. Honda has good cars out there, but by no means do I believe that they as good as all the hype they're given. To each his own, though. I guess I have a big beef with Honda b/c of the quirky problems I've had with all 3 cars, plus I get stuck driving her cars on long trips for cargo purposes (my cars usually have subwoofer boxes, and don't fit a car seat), I find them extremely uncomfortable, jerky (every one she has owned) and overall poor performance. That's just me, though, everyone has different tastes. |
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AMERICANMAN Unregistered guest | Glasswolf: I get where you are coming from. I know how it is having to work really hard to restore something that has a high personal value, and in your case, it really is valubale. Probably the reason that there aren't many imports in your area is because you are in the home state of the motor city :o) About the modern tuner comunity, I agree with you 110%. And I do know how to value all that hard work that goes into classic car restoration and modding. Do you have a web page with any pictures? Once I get back to the States, I wanna see if I can find a 79 Trans am or the 68 SS Camaro. Those two are my favorite classics. Of course my all time fav is the 81 Cauntach, but maybe a little out of my reach for the time being!!! By the way, I heard that GM has cancelled the Camaro/Firebird production permanently. Is this true? The 2004 Viper by the way now holds a much better engine, and is has had excelent technological anvances implenemented. For example the new V10 engine with multipoint injection attaining MASSIVE Power Figures: 500 HP SAE (372 kW)@ 5,600 rpm; 712 Nm (525 ft lb)@ 4,200 rpm) and the implementation of a limited slip differential, so you don't go fishending the cars @ss all over the road, wishbone front and rear suspension independent with stabilizer bar and coil springs, with obvious gains when you want to floor it in non-strait-line conditions. Too bad that they couldn't lower that 0.4 Drag coefficient to the 0.25-0.30 region though. But with that kind of power...The new C5 version of the Vette also seems to have quite a few positive implementaions. |
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Silver Member Username: GrmncrsnbrVA Post Number: 176 Registered: Jun-04 | yeah they have been planning on cancelling camaro/firebird production for a while now. Good riddance too. They have ruined the both of those cars since the 80s. love the older birds and camaros. Beautifully built but now they just look like crap and rattle after owning them for 6 months. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 3895 Registered: Dec-03 | "Do you have a web page with any pictures?" sure do. www.wickedcases.com/charger/ for the 440 rod, and go to the 'about me' link for a couple pictures of the 426. I've been thinking about trying to put a four-link suspension in the back of teh 440. it'd be nice for adjusting the ride for hole shots at least. "I wanna see if I can find a 79 Trans am or the 68 SS Camaro." Let me know. a friend of mine locally (the one who's garage I use) has 3 or 4 79 anniversary and S.E. firebird/TAs (two anniv., one bandit, and one SE I think it is) among his collection of toys. I know of a black and gold SE for sale right now. great shape. Woman wants 10K for it. I love the 68 Camaros myself.. best year.. the 69 RS/SS is nice too, but they're collector cars. expensive. "Of course my all time fav is the 81 Cauntach, but maybe a little out of my reach for the time being!" funny you should mention that. just as an alternative, you should look at some of the kit cars available. Fiero GT chassis stretched 11", full replica interior and exterior molded from a real Countach, and you can easily drop a 396ci chevy small block in the back with the Getrag tranny from a porshce 914 and you have a car that will outrun and h=outhandle a real Lamborghini, thanks to better brakes (Baer discs front/rear) better power to weight ratio, and 600lbs less weight. total cost, around $25K turnkey. They have Diablo kits as well now. "I heard that GM has cancelled the Camaro/Firebird production permanently. Is this true?" well, the Camaro was ended, at laest for several years. They're re-doing the car lines since that car has been around for so long now. I believe the Firebird/TA is staying, but not sure. They may just stick with the GTO now. "The new C5 version of the Vette also seems to have quite a few positive implementaions." the LS1 chevy small block is a great little V8 really.. tons of bolt-ons for them now to squeeze all you can get out of them. I see them used all the time now in hand built hotrods (like 32 highboys and such) |
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