Bass boost, eq, gain

 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 327
Registered: Jun-06
i was reading some of the archived threads where polo and m.s., and hondarider or w/e were arguing about bass knobs and gain, but I need some clarification...no arguing please!

On my amp (memphis) there is a Gain knob, Bass EQ knob, LPF knob, and Subsonic filter knob. I plan on setting the gain properly with a dmm tomorrow with a 50hz test tone at 0db, correct? LPF i put around 75-85 and SS filter little below 35hz, what my box is tuned to.

One question is, what is the bass eq for, and what should I put that at?

Second, when setting my gains, do I put my subwoofer level all the way up on my headunit before setting the gain w/ the dmm?

Thanks guys, appreciate it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Skibum12189

Cleveland

Post Number: 2423
Registered: Mar-06
if "bass eq" is a bass boost, turn it almost all the way down.

set your LPF wherever you think it sounds best. wait, is your box sealed or ported and if ported, at what frequency is it tuned to?

i had my subwoofer level on my HU like 90% of the way up when i set mine.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nd4spd18

Northwest PA

Post Number: 5416
Registered: Jul-06
You've got the LPF and SSF right.



" do I put my subwoofer level all the way up on my headunit before setting the gain w/ the dmm? "

yep
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 329
Registered: Jun-06
my box is tuned to 35hz
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 330
Registered: Jun-06
right, ive got the lpf and ssf, how come?
 

Gold Member
Username: Nd4spd18

Northwest PA

Post Number: 5418
Registered: Jul-06
Haha no I meant you set those correctly.

Bass EQ = bass boost, turn it off.
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 331
Registered: Jun-06
lol o sorry man...i just went and got a dmm, so im good to go, all i need to do now is download the test tone. thanks again
 

Gold Member
Username: Zacdavis

Beloit, Wi

Post Number: 1501
Registered: Dec-03
Why would you put the "subwoofer" level all the way up on the headunit?

I set my amplifier's gain levels without a DMM.
That method is useless in my opinion, just set the gain to the level of voltage your deck is rated at.
If your HU has 3volt sub pre-out then set your gain at 3 volts.

The whole multimeter thing seems like a waste of time because different cd's are mixed differently and besides that you listen to your music at various volumes.
The only time I ever use a DMM to set gains is for set ups that have two or more of the same amp.
This isn't matching 'amp to HU' but here the DMM can be used to match the amplifiers with each other so their output is equal.
 

Gold Member
Username: Drivingreckless

DD 9515f, 148.2 db Mov...

Post Number: 5062
Registered: Apr-06
a little bass boost is always helpful for the amplifier to achieve its maximum potential. now im not saying crank it up but you dont have to turn it all the way off.
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 332
Registered: Jun-06
im not sure i follow, in my case i just got done doing it with the dmm and had to turn the gain up all the way, and turn the bass eq up a tiny bit in order to reach 31.6 volts. is this correct?
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 333
Registered: Jun-06
driving, i think thats what i did correct? bass eq = bass boost? With that all the way down, and my gain all the way up, i was only getting about 24.7 volts, when my target was 31.6. So when I turned the bass eq knob a little bit, I got to 31.6 Is this the correct thing to do
 

Gold Member
Username: Drivingreckless

DD 9515f, 148.2 db Mov...

Post Number: 5076
Registered: Apr-06
you should be getting 31.6 on your gain...if your getting 24.7 volts all the way up and down you are not measuring it correctly. which do you measure the speaker inputs or power and ground?
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 335
Registered: Jun-06
speaker inputs, like it showed in the jl tutorial
 

Gold Member
Username: Bnd_rulez

Phoenix, AZ USA

Post Number: 1166
Registered: Mar-05
I simply play by ear. Turn boost all the way off, speakers off, turn head unit to 3/4 then start slowly turning gain until distortion is heard. Then turn it back a bit.

Thats even how it says to do it in my SS manual.
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 336
Registered: Jun-06
so turn the bass eq down all the way again, and just do it by ear this time. I still dont understand why I was getting 24.7 volts when my gain was maxed on the amp
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 337
Registered: Jun-06
ive searched around and have seen on subwoofertools, that other people have had the same problem. what could be causing this
 

Silver Member
Username: Somedonniedude

Illinois United States

Post Number: 728
Registered: May-07
What are all the setting at on the HU when you test it?
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 339
Registered: Jun-06
zac, i got an email from the memphis tech support and they said pretty much what you said about the gain. They said to use a moderate (less than half) bass boost, and to match the amplifier's gain to the hu's pre out. My pre out is 4v, so how do i go about setting my amp gain at 4v?

HELP! lol
 

Gold Member
Username: Extrmndor3

Http://illuzonemu.serv..., ^^^Sick Game

Post Number: 7443
Registered: Feb-06
u should set the subsonic filter one octave lower than your tunning frequency...

dont put too much bass boost or nothign at all.. sometimes bass boost is a good thing but only around 1/10 to 3/10 no more than that and set the gains good and your crossovers good so that right when your speakers start to roll off your subs take those frequencies..
 

Gold Member
Username: Nd4spd18

Northwest PA

Post Number: 5432
Registered: Jul-06
Something's wrong on your HU, that what causes that. Volume should be at 3/4, ALL settings need to be off. Check everything.
 

Gold Member
Username: Zacdavis

Beloit, Wi

Post Number: 1507
Registered: Dec-03
Hi Nicky,

If you look at the gain pot you'll see numbers indicating voltage.

Turned down completely, the pot should be at around 7-8 o'clock. Clockwise turning motion the pot should stop around 4-5 o'clock.
In this pic one amp is set at 7 o'clock and the other 5 o'clock.
You would set your gain at 12 o'clock if your head unit has 1.5 volt pre-outs.

As you "turn up" the gain you'll see that the voltage level(numbers) decrease in value.

I'm not sure where 4 volt is on a Memphis amp, I just grabbed an old 1000D out of my drawer and there were no indications on the pot :-( Check the owners manual.

But like Government said, set it by ear. This always works for me.

Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Nd4spd18

Northwest PA

Post Number: 5443
Registered: Jul-06
Just something to think about

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=143


JL Audio uses the DMM method. And that's all I've got to say about this, I don't care to argue with people who don't believe it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Safe_cracker

Chicago, IL US

Post Number: 3893
Registered: Jan-06
I like Zac's way of thinking, lOl. I myself set my gains by ear but then again I have been around car audio my whole life. IMHO with the varying level of musical input either from tune to Ipod to CD or just a plain old crappy MP3 it is impossible to accuratly set the gain with a DMM. If you do you need to leave such a HUGE lee-way and your playing with fire doing that. The reason being after listening to you bump for a long period of time you start to lose some hearing in which you may be inclined to turn it up more, with and with the extra headroom you have left yourself you may be smelling coils on a certain song you never listened to before or it may be 20degs warmer ouside. I use to bump my subs while outside of my car cleaning my truck out well I left it for a period of time on the upper end of the volume scale while playing off the Ipod. Well it came to a song I never altered (normalized) and the volume level of it was about 6 dbs higher than the previous song, well guess what, by the time I got back to my car, the sub had already smoked, must have clipped the sh!t out of it, 2500rms on a Treo SSX. That was my original SSX before they sent me a new one, came up with a good story.... :-O Polo..
 

Platinum Member
Username: Rovin

4 10 Pioneer...

Post Number: 12796
Registered: Jul-05
i my self have never used a meter to set gain - i do it by common ssense & ear like govt cheez sez ...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Wingmanalive

A pic is worth 1000 posts!!

Post Number: 12423
Registered: Jun-06
I agree with the ear method. This way you dummy proof it. The max volume you usually use on your HU shouldn't distort your music this way.


But you have guys who are always popping the trunk and changing the setting.



Set it, forget it!






I was always curious about the comparison between car audio volume settings and home audio receivers. In car audio you have dudes setting their volume/gain settings to play at 3/4 on the dial. At home if I'm at 40% I'm fugging things around me up lol. Even at 10% sometimes I can't hear my phone ring. Shoot the vids I have of my Q were only at 40% (volume dial, not gain) and I didn't want to go any higher, didn't need to.



Things that make you go hmmmmmm.
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 340
Registered: Jun-06
so do i still use the test tone of 50hz at 0db while doing it by ear.

m.s., i think i might try the dmm way again, see if i can mess with my hu a little more, if that doesnt work im gonna try the ear method.
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 341
Registered: Jun-06
bump
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 342
Registered: Jun-06
my pioneer hu has a few sub settings, such as when i press the sub button on the left, I can have it on, off, or inverted. Do I turn that off, and keep the bass at +6 (it goes from 0-6)?
 

Gold Member
Username: Jtown

Team Revolution, Texas

Post Number: 1682
Registered: Mar-07
as far as EQs go, do you turn the SS and LPF all the way down as well? or do those have no bearing on the voltage output of the amp?
 

Gold Member
Username: Zacdavis

Beloit, Wi

Post Number: 1510
Registered: Dec-03
Come on you guys, why do you do this to yourselves.

Setting a single sub amp with a DMM is a WASTE OF TIME!!!!!!!

Unless you never plan on listening to anything other than that test tone you set the gain with or ever adjusting the bass settings this is a waste of time.
The amplitude differs greatly between types of media and different genres of music.
One song may have extremely loud bass where as the next song you can barely hear it, so what do ya do?, turn up the bass.

What we're saying is if you adjust the gain of your amp with a DMM at with only one reference point than it will only be accurate when those same variables are present.

This is a crappy analogy but its like picking a specific date to pick apples from the trees.
No no no, ya pick'em when they're ripe. There is no specific day ta pick'em because no two seasons are ever the same and nor are any two trees.
Yeah, that really did suck, let me try to think of a better one.......

ok, Drag Racing.

Setting it at "3/4 volume with a 50hz test recorded at 0db gain" is no differnt than setting up your race car on a sunny 70 degree day with 100 degree track temps.

Yes, your car will perform great, IN THOSE PARTICULAR CONDITIONS, but we know the weather changes, and so does the music, and you must change the settings accordingly.

Ok, i'm gonna stop with the analogies tonight because i'm starting to confuse myself haha.

Just set your gain according to the HU's claim in pre-out voltage. If it says it has 4 volt pre outs turn the gain to 4 and be done with it! Your gonna change your settings at the HU from song to song anyways geeze. If your amp doesnt indicate voltage at the gain potentiometer then just turn the dang thing half to 3/4's up. :P
 

Platinum Member
Username: Chaunb3400

Huntsville, Alabama U.S.

Post Number: 13581
Registered: Jul-05
no :p pic zac???
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 346
Registered: Jun-06
i understand where you are coming from zac, but since I actually went out and bought a dmm id like to use it. I appreciate your input and if all else fails, I'm going to do it your way.

however, i do not believe jl audio would have a tutorial on setting gain just for fun. There's gotta be somethin to it. So lemme give this another shot, see if I can tweak (shut off more eq, treble) some more stuff today.
 

Gold Member
Username: Zacdavis

Beloit, Wi

Post Number: 1511
Registered: Dec-03
Do you plan on keeping your bass at zero and your sub level at zero?
 

Gold Member
Username: Nd4spd18

Northwest PA

Post Number: 5460
Registered: Jul-06
If you've bass at +6 right now thats the problem........ everything needs to be at 0 or off, with the exception of subwoofer level.



Thats if anyones even still listening to me. (well, me and JLs engineers actually)
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 347
Registered: Jun-06
no i hear you m.s., memphis tech support said the same thing. Im doin it tomorrow let u know what happens
 

Gold Member
Username: Nd4spd18

Northwest PA

Post Number: 5464
Registered: Jul-06
So memphis advises the DMM method as well? Interesting. I had heard from someone with JL that the reson a lot of companies don't is simply because users will think it's too complicated........
 

Gold Member
Username: Zacdavis

Beloit, Wi

Post Number: 1514
Registered: Dec-03
Other companies don't tell customers to do it because its pointless.

Unless you plan on listening to every song without changing any settings ever, and not to mention all the media you play would have to be recorded at the same level, then its wasting time.

As soon as you put a cd in I GUARANTEE you'll start adjusting the eq settings and sub levels at the head unit to get the sound you want, and guess what, all that work you just did with the DMM is out the window. Besides, whos to say that cd is recorded at the same level the test tone cd?

WASTE OF TIME!!!!
 

Gold Member
Username: Jtown

Team Revolution, Texas

Post Number: 1692
Registered: Mar-07
he makes a very valid point.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nd4spd18

Northwest PA

Post Number: 5469
Registered: Jul-06
Ugh, don't get me started on headunit EQs......

As far as an EQ goes, it's purpose is to create a flat resopnse, not to be adjusted with every song. IMO EQs in headunits are one of most pointless features ever...... an EQ should be set and forget, like the amp. Some trunk mount EQs even have a plate to cover the settings so they don't get changed.
 

Gold Member
Username: Zacdavis

Beloit, Wi

Post Number: 1519
Registered: Dec-03
M.S.,
That would be an ideal situation to be in unfortunately there is no standard when it comes to recording and copying music. And because of this, eq's are a necessity.

Put Dierks Bently in, then Project Pat.
You'll instantly notice the differences and adjust your eq to find the desired response.

Some songs have to much bass, to don't have enough, others have to much treble, and so on.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nd4spd18

Northwest PA

Post Number: 5481
Registered: Jul-06
I don't adjust my EQ with every song........ that would be nuts.

I DO turn down my subwoofer level on songs that have a lot of bass if I don't want excessive bass at the time...... that is useful.
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 348
Registered: Jun-06
"If you've bass at +6 right now thats the problem........ everything needs to be at 0 or off, with the exception of subwoofer level."

So put my bass at 0 on my headunit, and just leave the subwoofer setting "on"? I dont know what your referring to when you say subwoofer level? I have the same headunit that kyle longbrake just sold, the deh 680mp if any of you could refer to that.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jtown

Team Revolution, Texas

Post Number: 1703
Registered: Mar-07
I turn the bass down as far as it will go, so for me bass-7, treble=flat (0), subwoofer level +5/15

many HUs have subwoofer controls yours may just be an on/off type of situation, in which case, leave it on
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 349
Registered: Jun-06
o ok, yea that is the case. thanks man
 

Silver Member
Username: Somedonniedude

Illinois United States

Post Number: 734
Registered: May-07
You should be able to turn off the eq. I dont know why they say HPF on them, on my pion there is 3 preset freq @ 50, 80, and 125. I cant even tell a difference when switching between the 3, but when I turn it up, my sub gets louder and vise versa when down. I dont understand why it says HPF on it though.
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 353
Registered: Jun-06
wait, i just watched the elemental designs tutorial again and are you supposed to disconnect the positive and negative terminals connecting the sub to the amp? It didnt seem like he did that?
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 354
Registered: Jun-06
Hello Guys.

Im the guy from eD in the video.

I would first like to say im sorry for the video not being very professional. We had alot of people asking about it, so we made one very quickly.

The reason we recommed the speaker being hooked up is so that a load is present on the amplifier.

If you have a mono block amp and set the gains to 34 volts with no load, then hook the subwoofer up, that voltage increase due to resistance might be 45 volts and put you into clipping.

Before working for eD I have tested this with an o-scope and can confirm.

While resistance changes depending on frequency, box and other things, its still better to have some type of load on the amp.

The reason that JL audio says not to hook up a load, is becuase their amplifiers are regulated and put out the same power between 1.5-4 ohms. So no load is needed.

I hope this helps our reasoning a little bit.

Alex
_________________________
****eD****
 

Gold Member
Username: Zacdavis

Beloit, Wi

Post Number: 1525
Registered: Dec-03
My god, finally, somebody with some common sense.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Bestmankind

IM THE REAL SLIM SHADY

Post Number: 16904
Registered: Oct-05
Tweaking Your Bass
By AdireRulesForever

Here is a tweaking process for getting the most from your subs and amp. Additional boom from the sub(s) is/are our main goal here, so will focus mainly upon that. Here we go:

Get out a few of your favorite CD's. Something with good mix and some low thump content. Dial back on the sub amp gain so there is very little sub in the mix. Turn off any bass boost features in the amp for now. May need a little later, but for now, no bass boost for now. Let's get to work 'cause BABY, it's cold outside!



1. Set the EQ functions on HU to "0" or "flat" (no cuts, no boost)
2. Pop in the CD/tape/MP3 and select your favorite cut(s) and repeat.
3. Turn up the HU volume knob until you hear some distortions from the interior stage speakers.
4. Back off on the volume until distortions are gone. Is best to get out of the car and listen with doors open from a few feet away. If you still hear a rough sound, back off on the volume a bit more.
5. Now, time to add the sub into the mix. If amp has a low Pass filter, set it in a range between 70-120 Hz. No bass boost just yet. If you have continuously variable LPF, determine what sounds best in your ears, within the range noted.
6. Bring up the gain on the sub amp, until you get it thumping and hear a "little" distortion.
7. Back off on the sub gain (a wee bit) until it sound full, deep and clean.
8. If bass seems a bit lacking of punch or deep lows, a small amount of Bass Boost, can be added. (+3 to +6dB is all you should ever need here)
9. Again, if you hear the sub getting rough from distortion, back off on the gain a bit more.
10. Now, you may use the Bass Tone control on the HU to adjust your bass from the driver's seat. This works well in simple HU's. But if you have a menu driven EQ system, this is a bit more cumbersome.



That's about it and now time for a test drive to ensure you have the system well balanced and in control. However, if you still have poor bass performance or weak bass output. May try reverse the wires to the sub and see if that improves the overall affect. If it gets better, you're good to go. If it seems worse, return the sub wires to original orientation.

Finally, if you have done all these steps correctly, and the bass is still not getting much bump or louder, and your gains are maxed out, you may have to go back to the LOC's and adjust them, in conjunction with the sub amp gains.

The LOC's trim pots, act like water mixing valves. Turing them in one direction, will feed more input voltage to the sub amp. Going the other direction on the pots, will reduce your sub output power. This optimizing process, should get your sub(s) up to par with the rest of your system. If not, something is off kilter here and needs more attention. Happy thumping!
 

Gold Member
Username: Zacdavis

Beloit, Wi

Post Number: 1526
Registered: Dec-03
Most of his suggestions are good however he is out of sequence.
He absolutely should NOT, do #1 and #8 in this order.

When the subs are "off", as they are in 1-4, this is the time to adjust your bass and treble settings for the interior speakers. This is also the time to turn on the HPF.
When you reach the maximum/optimum performance out of your front and rear stages then it is time to add the sub.

With that exception I'd say the rest of the process is pretty good advice.
 

Silver Member
Username: Nickyp0219

Post Number: 356
Registered: Jun-06
yea thanks guys i went with this method, mainly because the dmm method didnt work for me! but second because its easier and it worked lol
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