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Bronze Member Username: KickermanPost Number: 19 Registered: May-06 | is a 200amp/110 idle alternator going to be enough to push two kx 1200.1 inside a 1996 toyota camry |
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Gold Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 1152 Registered: Oct-04 | yeah. if you listen to ur music at about 1/2 to 2/3 volume. |
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Gold Member Username: Logan__tilleHamilton, Indiana United states Post Number: 1439 Registered: Feb-06 | get a good battery and it will be fine. |
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Gold Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 2688 Registered: Dec-05 | i'd say get 2 at least. |
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Bronze Member Username: KickermanPost Number: 25 Registered: May-06 | why at least two wouldnt one red top optima be enough |
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Bronze Member Username: KickermanPost Number: 26 Registered: May-06 | oh and also how can i get in touch with nate |
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New member Username: James3146Portland, OR USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Oct-06 | If I were you I would get another battery or a couple of Caps. No matter how big the alternator, the lights will still dim, because the primary source for the amp is the same primary source for the lights (battery). Because when the bass hits it is not a constant load, it wont constantly output what the amp is drawing. So next time you have your bass playing listen to the alternator turn on and off, it will start to charge, and then turn off once the load is gone, therefore causing the lights to dim. I personally have two 1 farad caps on my 1000 RMS amp and I see nearly no dimming,and before the caps it was light a pink floyd light show. As for the alternator it sounds like it will take care of what you are doing, only because the load you are applying is not constant. If you have money burning in your pocket buy a DEEP cycle battery for the second battery and one cap, you will be golden. The deep cycle will take the beating of going way down and coming back up, and the cap will give you better bass response since the charge and discharge rate is multiple times faster than any battery. |
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Gold Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 2750 Registered: Dec-05 | ^^^^^^ that's the reason |
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Gold Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 1177 Registered: Oct-04 | ^^^^"because the primary source for the amp is the same primary source for the lights (battery)."^^^ Are you sure about that? I thought that was the alternators job. Hmmmm..... And of coarse Juliob agrees with you. |
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New member Username: James3146Portland, OR USA Post Number: 6 Registered: Oct-06 | Well think about it real quick, electricity is always looking for it fastest path to ground. So the battery is the first source of ground for the amp. The amp takes it power from the battery. Now normally on smaller loads the alternator would be able to compensate that load and produce enough so that the battery would not even notice the difference. But since bass loads the battery/alternator so much it has to draw from the battery because it has taken everything the alternator can produce that second. So when the voltage is below say 13.5 volts the alternator is no longer producing enough and the power is taken from the battery. To make things even trickier, if your alternator has LRC (Load Response Control) then it may take up to 10 seconds for the alternator to produce what it needed to fill the battery back up to voltage set-point. I hope this helps you understand what is going on in that electrical system. Also feel free to ask questions if something doesn't make sense. |
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Gold Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 1178 Registered: Oct-04 | Well then lets just take the alternator out and add more batteries and capacitors and when we get home at night we'll just plug it all into a battery charger. Yeah, then you won't even need an alternator. And if your voltage gets low just add more capacitors. And to think that I was going to run two alternators when all I needed was more batteries and caps. Thanks for the help man. |
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Silver Member Username: MakmillionMN United States Post Number: 975 Registered: Apr-06 | LOL^^ |
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Gold Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 1181 Registered: Oct-04 | Mick weren't you getting upset earlier about the whole "lol" thing? lol |
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New member Username: James3146Portland, OR USA Post Number: 8 Registered: Oct-06 | I didnt mean to offend you. But is there something that is wrong about what I said? |
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Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 4170 Registered: Aug-04 | Yes. Capacitors are useless. |
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New member Username: James3146Portland, OR USA Post Number: 10 Registered: Oct-06 | Have you ever looked inside your amp? There are capacitors in their doing the same thing??? Or maybe I am wrong they were put there for looks? Check this site out for what the future of the useless capacitors will be. http://www.worldandi.com/subscribers/feature_detail.asp?num=23938 |
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Gold Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 1186 Registered: Oct-04 | Tyler he needs an alternator that will handle the amps. he can add all the caps and batteries he wants, but he will still need a high output alternator. caps will add to the current demand if the alternator isn't big enuf. |
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Gold Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 2767 Registered: Dec-05 | lucas that's why you're so dumb, cuz you never agree you stupid. If he's right you must recognize it you stupid STFU |
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Gold Member Username: Alias747MN Post Number: 1399 Registered: Apr-05 | Tyler read this: http://www.wickedcases.com/caraudio/capacitors.html The whole thing... |
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Gold Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 1190 Registered: Oct-04 | Juliob please give reason. There is no alternative (battery or caps) for a high output alternator. |
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Gold Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 2770 Registered: Dec-05 | stupid if you get a HO alt and a regular bat right, when you turn off your car and bump the music, you're gonna have problems. If you get one deep cycle you can bump your music cuz will work with a 80% discharge. IF you have 2 batteries, one in the trunk and an isolator, you can bump the music until your battery discharges and then you still can turn on your car. That's why lucas you're still a dumb, stupid, you can't recognize the truth, even with a document from a car audio magazine, benchtest results, you're just a plain dumb! |
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Gold Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 2771 Registered: Dec-05 | FYI, a capacitor is useful when you know how to use it. DUMB |
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Gold Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 1191 Registered: Oct-04 | 2400 watts is ALOT of power. 2400W / .8 eff = 3000W total 3000W / 14.4V = 208 Amps Thats just for the sub amps and those amps will put out more than 1200 a piece. You also have to run front/rear amp and the current that the car needs. I personally would want a larger alternator, but you probably don't listen to it at full volume all the time so its probably okay. Make sure you do the big3. |
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Gold Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 1192 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm still a dumb? First of all if your going to insult me you pubeless mental cripple atleast try to use proper English. Your using dumb as an adjective. Adjective's describe a noun. So you need a noun in there somewhere. "You" doesn't count because it was in front of the adjective. You need to either say "You are dumb" or "You are a dumb poopy". Now try it again. And for an added bonus you could even try to be original. |
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Gold Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 2777 Registered: Dec-05 | maybe you don't know how to read cuz i said over there you're dumb. SEE you're DUMB |
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Gold Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 1194 Registered: Oct-04 | "That's why lucas you're still a dumb, stupid" "you're just a plain dumb!" "cuz you never agree you stupid." "If he's right you must recognize it you stupid" Much better juliob, but keep trying. And don't forget to try to be original. |
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Bronze Member Username: CognitionPost Number: 15 Registered: Sep-06 | LOL! |
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Bronze Member Username: James3146Portland, OR USA Post Number: 13 Registered: Oct-06 | I didnt mean to start so much drama. But with Lucas's system a H/O is a must because you are drawing a lot more than what the stock alternator can ever produce. BUT no matter how many or how big of alternators you have, you are still not going to stop the common dimming of the lights, that is where the caps, and extra battery come in. They take most of the load away from the main battery where the lights are hooked to. To answer the initial question, yes that alternator will be more than enough to cover that stereo. Just understand that the load from the bass is so random that the alternator doesnt know when to start charging usually until it is to late. I read the aritcle, and he is right, I am not disagreeing with anything that he says. |
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Silver Member Username: RenegadesrunLafayette, IN US Post Number: 236 Registered: Oct-04 | Consider this. A capacitor is only useful in one way: If you already have a VERY stable electrical system, and you are noticing difficulty in your amplifier keeping up with difficult musical passages, adding a capacitor will help maintain transcience over the passage. It is USELESS to put a cap on a subwoofer amplifier. 99% of all caps sold are too small to be of practical use. For example, if I was using 50w x 2 for my front stage, I'd want a minimum of a 5f cap, otherwise it would do more harm than good. Since were on the dumb/idiot kick i dont mind adding fuel to the forest fire. If 1 Farad = 100 joules or 100W/second and a 850cca battery = ~2,200,000 farads. You would need 2,200 farads to equal one battery. Your supposed savior, the cap, does not discharge until the alt is maxed outand the volts have dropped at least 1.5v.....which is was supposed to prevent? :rolleyes: YOU need 70a of alt per 1000w of amp...roughly. PLUS whatever it came with stock, all the batteries and caps on this planet will not help you if you dont follow this simple rule. The a55 kicking your alt was getting before you added the "bandaid" will only be compounded by not adding the correct amount of amperage that you so dearly need. In this case, you have over 320 amps of draw (amps PLUS cars needs), but only 200 amps of current from the alternator. In your case, you need 160 amps x 12 volts which is about 1920 watts of energy. Since a cap stores 50W your going to be hella short. Hell yea, ill jump on the bandwagon and say.......if you buy a cap, and think it "fixed" anything you are most definitely "stupid". Your in luck!!! It is not fatal, and there is a cure!!!! Final word? A quote from the inventor himself. "..The audio industry is the only place i know of where you can publish specs that show your product is useless and still be able to sell them------and whats worse is that technically ignorant people will argue against the math!!!!!!!..............RC.." Yea, thats right, Richard Clark said your stupid too. Since he knows one hell of alot more than you, he's probably right. |
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Bronze Member Username: KickermanPost Number: 30 Registered: May-06 | all i wanted to know would i be able to safely run my two kx 1200.1's off of my red top optima battery and my 200/110 idle alternator. i didnt mean for it to get this far. ??????? |
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Silver Member Username: RenegadesrunLafayette, IN US Post Number: 238 Registered: Oct-04 | LOL Ed, the cap debate almost always gets ugly. The battery? No not IMO. Not that battery, and not just one. I would suggest a Kinetik, Northstar, Stinger/Odyessy (sp?). Just better batteries, plain and simple. The kinetik will be the most cost effective. One under the hood and one, maybe 2 in the back. The alt might pass if you add a smaller pulley and lift that idle rate. Then IMO you'd be close enough. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Ct Post Number: 6685 Registered: Dec-04 | These thread's always do end up ugly your right man. Like Tyler and renegade said, The HO alt is a must, after that a cap is not a bad thing. If you have the upgraded elec system to properly charge the cap it will help with voltage rail sag. Like renegade said on a sub I would go with atleast 5 fared per 1000 watts. next Tyler was absolutely right about the second batery. This tends to come into play more often when people dont know that a alternator runs your car when it is running and not the battery and instead of a alt upgrade they go with a second battery. OK when your alternator is putting out 110 @ idle and your 1200 watt amp plus lights in the car and radio, and mid's and high amp are pulling 135 your alt will not be able to keep up therefor pulling juice from your battery,(this is where cap's trying to pull from your elec system to refill on quick bass notes also Effect in a neg way) so it will pull from your battery which will soon start to lag and possibly damaging your car(worst case). now when this is happening whether you have a HO alt or not it will have a horrible effect on your headlights and interior lights dimming,(thus the pink floyd light show effect lol) Now if you have another battery in the trunk running your amps alone(kinetic is a great great idea) it will pull from that reserve and not your battery for your headlights and car, thus having your main battery give enough juice to keep your lights and motor running untill the light turns green and you bring up your amperage and start recharging your system. |
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Bronze Member Username: James3146Portland, OR USA Post Number: 14 Registered: Oct-06 | IF anyone cant find a H/O alternator I have found that Wrangler Northwest Power Products in Portland, Oregon has had battery, dual battery kit, and alternators for everything I have thrown at them. Plus there stuff has good warranty, and does real good at low end, as well as top end. |
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Gold Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 1195 Registered: Oct-04 | I though he said that he had two kx1200's? I have a kx2500 and my 240 amp alternator and 5 farad cap and second battery is still not enuf if i want to turn it up all the way. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Ct Post Number: 6686 Registered: Dec-04 | that makes sense. Your 240 amp alt prob does 140@ idle and that amp at peak pulls about 250amps. |
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Silver Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Oregon U.S. Post Number: 298 Registered: Jun-06 | Tyler Thank you my man. I live in portland and have been looking to see if there were any local company's that have H/O alts. Where are they located? |
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Gold Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 1196 Registered: Oct-04 | I looked at them man. They are high dollar. a 200 amp alternator for $800+ |
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Bronze Member Username: KickermanPost Number: 31 Registered: May-06 | ok so i have just one more question how would wire the two batterys and the cap |
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Silver Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Oregon U.S. Post Number: 299 Registered: Jun-06 | Hell yeah their expensive. 160 amp and 85 at idle. for $600 for my ride. Looks like i'll be getting one from Nate or Iraggi. |
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Gold Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 1197 Registered: Oct-04 | wire them in parallel and use fuses. |
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Bronze Member Username: James3146Portland, OR USA Post Number: 15 Registered: Oct-06 | They are expensive, but they last. They are all hand built in the shop from the best parts, none of that cheapo china crap. But if other people can do better or same for cheaper no reason not go for that. Just wire them + to + to + and - to - to-. Make sure if you go with the cap put the cap between the amp and the last battery in line. |