S/N ratio

 

Bronze Member
Username: Naledge503

Portland, Oregon U.S.

Post Number: 12
Registered: Jun-06
Can somebody explain what S/N ratio is and if it is important or not?
 

Silver Member
Username: Skies

Courtenay, British Colu... Canada

Post Number: 204
Registered: Aug-05
Signal to Noise ratio...
I'm not sure what it means
 

Gold Member
Username: Juliob

Santo DomingoDominican Re...

Post Number: 1300
Registered: Dec-05
Signal-to-noise ratio is an engineering term for the power ratio between a signal (meaningful information) and the background noise:


Because many signals have a very wide dynamic range, SNRs are usually expressed in terms of the logarithmic decibel scale. In decibels, the SNR is 20 times the base-10 logarithm of the amplitude ratio, or 10 times the logarithm of the power ratio:


where P is average power and A is RMS amplitude. Both signal and noise power are measured within the system bandwidth.

[edit]
Electrical SNR and acoustics
Often the signals being compared are electromagnetic in nature, though it is also possible to apply the term to sound stimuli. Due to the definition of decibel, the SNR gives the same result independent of the type of signal which is evaluated (such as power, current, or voltage).

Signal-to-noise ratio is closely related to the concept of dynamic range, where dynamic range measures the ratio between noise and the greatest un-distorted signal on a channel. SNR measures the ratio between noise and an arbitrary signal on the channel, not necessarily the most powerful signal possible. Because of this, measuring signal-to-noise ratios requires the selection of a representative or reference signal. In audio engineering, this reference signal is usually a sine wave, sounding a tone, at a recognized and standardized magnitude, such as 1 kHz at +4 dBu (1.228 VRMS).

SNR is usually taken to indicate an average signal-to-noise ratio, as it is possible that (near) instantaneous signal-to-noise ratios will be considerably different. The concept can be understood as normalizing the noise level to 1 (0 dB) and measuring how far the signal 'stands out'. In general, higher signal to noise is better; the signal is 'cleaner'.

[edit]
Image processing and interferometry
In image processing, the SNR of an image is usually defined as the ratio of the mean pixel value to the standard deviation of the pixel values. Related measures are the "contrast ratio" and the "contrast-to-noise ratio". The connection between optical power and voltage in an imaging system is linear. This usually means that the SNR of the electrical signal is calculated by the 10 log rule. With an interferometric system, however, where interest lies in the signal from one arm only, the field of the electromagnetic wave is proportional to the voltage (assuming that the intensity in the second, the reference arm is constant). Therefore the optical power of the measurement arm is directly proportional to the electrical power and electrical signals from optical interferometry are following the 20 log rule.

[edit]
Digital signals
When using digital storage the number of bits of each value determines the maximum signal-to-noise ratio. In this case the noise is the error signal caused by the quantization of the signal, taking place in the analog-to-digital conversion. The noise level is non-linear and signal-dependent; different calculations exist for different signal models.[1] The noise is modeled as an analog error signal being summed with the signal before quantization ("additive noise").

[edit]
Fixed point
See also: Fixed point
For n-bit integers with equal distance between quantization levels (uniform quantization) the dynamic range (DR) is also determined.

Assuming a uniform distribution of input signal values, the quantization noise is a uniformly-distributed random signal with a peak-to-peak amplitude of one quantization level, making the amplitude ratio 2n/1. The formula is then:


This is the origin of statements like "16-bit audio has a dynamic range of 96 dB". Each extra quantisation bit reduces the level of the quantisation noise by roughly 6 dB.

Assuming a full-scale sine wave signal, the quantization noise approximates a sawtooth wave with peak-to-peak amplitude of one quantization level.[2] In this case, the SNR is:


(With this signal model, 16-bit audio has an SNR of 98.1 dB.)

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Floating point
Floating-point numbers provide a way to trade off signal-to-noise ratio for an increase in dynamic range. For n bit floating-point numbers, with n-m bits in the mantissa and m bits in the exponent:



Note that the dynamic range is much larger than fixed-point, but at a cost of a worse signal-to-noise ratio. This makes floating-point preferable in situations where the dynamic range is large or unpredictable. Fixed-point's simpler implementations can be used with no signal quality disadvantage in systems where dynamic range is less than 6.02m. The very large dynamic range of floating-point can be a disadvantage, since it requires more forethought in designing algorithms.[3]

[edit]
Notes
Analog-to-digital converters have other sources of noise that decrease the SNR compared to the theoretical maximum from the idealized quantization noise.
Often special filters are used to weight the noise: DIN-A, DIN-B, DIN-C, DIN-D, CCIR-601, and special filters in video. (Kammfilter)
Maximum possible full scale signal can be charged as peak-to-peak or as RMS. Audio uses RMS, Video P-P, which gave +9 dB more SNR for video.
It is more common to express SNR in digital systems using Eb/No (the Energy per bit per noise power spectral density).
Further information: Quantization noise, Bit resolution
[edit]
Informal use
Informally, "signal-to-noise ratio" is often used to describe the ratio of useful information to false or irrelevant information, for example in an online discussion forum.

The term has been used on Usenet, for instance, where off-topic posts and spam are regarded as "noise" that interferes with the "signal" of interesting discussion, or Bugzilla, where "please fix this" comments clutter up the discussion without helping to solve the bug.

Many Internet users prefer moderated forums, for instance, because moderation can improve the SNR of a forum. The wiki collaboration model addresses the same question in a different way, by granting every user the power to "moderate" content, adding signal while removing noise. The assumption is that a majority of users are motivated by belief in the project goals, which leads to improved SNR.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kaerfpl

Spencerport, NY USA

Post Number: 153
Registered: Jun-06
looking at all that hurts my head :/ lol
 

Gold Member
Username: Juliob

Santo DomingoDominican Re...

Post Number: 1302
Registered: Dec-05
Joe read this, you'll understand.


Signal-to-noise ratio is closely related to the concept of dynamic range, where dynamic range measures the ratio between noise and the greatest un-distorted signal on a channel. SNR measures the ratio between noise and an arbitrary signal on the channel, not necessarily the most powerful signal possible. Because of this, measuring signal-to-noise ratios requires the selection of a representative or reference signal. In audio engineering, this reference signal is usually a sine wave, sounding a tone, at a recognized and standardized magnitude, such as 1 kHz at +4 dBu (1.228 VRMS).

SNR is usually taken to indicate an average signal-to-noise ratio, as it is possible that (near) instantaneous signal-to-noise ratios will be considerably different. The concept can be understood as normalizing the noise level to 1 (0 dB) and measuring how far the signal 'stands out'. In general, higher signal to noise is better; the signal is 'cleaner'.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Naledge503

Portland, Oregon U.S.

Post Number: 13
Registered: Jun-06
so does that mean it is the greatest amount of db's you can acheive with out major distortion?
 

Silver Member
Username: N2audio

Lawrence, Ks USA

Post Number: 907
Registered: Mar-04
there isn't an amp made today that has an S/N that's audibly better or worse than any other amp. Differences can be measured, but there's no way in hell we're able to hear it.

Things actually worth considering --
RMS power (is it over or under-rated)
Will it be durable/long lasting
Does it have the controls you need/want
Does it have a good warranty
Do you like the looks
Price

There are definitely other factors, but those few will, for the most part, help you figure out if you'll be happy with your purchase.
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