Big 3 wiring

 

Anonymous
 
i was looking into to doing this but being a bit new to all this... was wondering is ground cable to the same as power cable? Is that the only type of wire i neeD?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Xkawn

Post Number: 86
Registered: Jul-05
you need speaker wire, power, ground, remote turn on wire for each amp. ground and power the same size. what size amps????
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9782
Registered: Dec-03
the "big three" upgrade is pointless unless you have installed a larger, high output alternator, or your factory wires are 15+ years old and showing signs of wear or damage.

Otherwise, the factory wires are already large enough to handle the peak current output of your stock alternator.
 

Anonymous
 
just a tantrum 1200.1 and probably will get the tantrum 500.2 for speakers. and wait a sec... i have a honda civic dx and the stock cables are probably the smallest and cheapest ones they could put in the car. i would think the big 3 is a definite help. People with stock alts see improvement in saying less dimming or no dimming with their stock alts.
 

Anonymous
 
said stock alt twice to emphasize
 

Anonymous
 
also whats the difference between the ground and power wire. and really i would need a speaker wire aiy ya ya. so what your saying kevin is getting pretty much an amp kit for 2 amps. hahaha i love it. i thought it was just some ground wires.

http://forum.sounddomain.com/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=007801;p=
i dont see all that other stuff.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9793
Registered: Dec-03
the "big 3" includes engine-to-chassis, alternator-to-battery positive, and battery-to-chassis ground.

reaed this:
http://www.betteraudio.com/geolemon/newmain/battcapalt/

and again, to emphasize, a honda usually has a 65 to 70A alternator anyway, and the stock, short runs of 8AWG wire they use are capable of handling that much current without melting. If you want to upgrade them though, go for it. I'd consider upgrades to the charging system too though with those tiny honda alternators.

the capacitor and charging system sections on these two sites help too:
http://www.bcae1.com/
and
http://www.wickedcases.com/tutorials/
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9794
Registered: Dec-03
btw, if you're using a 1200 watt amp and a 500 watt amp in that honda, that's 1700 watts of power, and you're really going to need a stronger charging system, not to mention larger than 4AWG wire. you'll need 1/0 AWG for that kind of current
 

Anonymous
 
thank you glasswolf. im trying to contact excessive amperage for a alt reconstruction kit, aka bigger magnet, to double my amp rating and trying to go for the optima yellow top 15R battery. and the reason why i want a 140A alt is becuase according to:
http://www.betteraudio.com/geolemon/newmain/battcapalt/

I cant afford to trade off any of those two HP and GM. Anyway isnt it just because the amplifier is ratetd at 80 amps doesnt mean its going to continuosly drain an 80 amp current? Isnt this rating for the max potential the amp can draw? im thinking even with the new alt and the big 3 i see some dimming just set the gains down. I really only need about 1000 watts. Tantrums are just my sideline love. :-)

"There are compromises and tradeoffs... it's expensive, you'll lose useable horsepower, and even gas mileage.
You might find that the current capability at idle RPM isn't much higher than your stock alternator was... it might make it's higher current number... but at a higher RPM, like 3000.
That's something you should know, while shopping for them, if you ever do get there, someday. You should look for the plot of current capacity vs RPM, because current capability is a function of RPM."
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 4178
Registered: Nov-04
Do not use the gain/level as a means of lowering output power. That is the wrong logic. Gain is not a volume control. You should really use the "volume" control to regulate output power. That's why it's there.
 

Anonymous
 
Thank you very much Glasswolf and isaac. Its rare to have people above the +1000 post line with actual helpful posts. "I might hate you both for all you know but damn how i respect you. (its a quote)
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9802
Registered: Dec-03
actually I disagree with Geolemon on those two points to be honest.
100A of alternator draws about 2HP from the motor at full output, so you'd lose maybe 4HP at most from a 200A alternator, and that's hardly going to affect your gass milage at all.
I had a 150A alternator in a ford festiva that had all of about 60 horsepower and it barely made any difference at all to the car's performance.
Aside from that, and his comments on price since the average 200A honda alternator upgrade is about $200 or less, is just there to dissuade people from upgrading to a higher output alternator. He's generally against the idea, and I'm very much for it, having actually done it to plenty of cars and having seen the difference it makes.
While he says the cars are designed to use the battery when the alternator is overworked, I feel the alternator should never hit that point and should always have some reserve current. Running an alternator at or beyond it's full output will overheat the alternator and burn it up pretty quickly. especially if this is done often for extended time periods and not just once every few weeks or months for a brief moment or two. This will also damage the battery if the battery isn't given sufficient time to recharge and is drawn to below about 10 volts.. the cells get damaged and the battery has to be replaced.

While 80A may be the peak currend draw of that amplifier, if that's the case, the most power it'll probably actually supply is around 800 watts RMS. The class AB 4 channel amp will draw more since it's only about 50% efficient compared to the class D mono amplifier's 80 to 90% efficiency.

How much current you really end up using depends a lot on how much you turn it up and for how long, but with that much power there's usually a reason for having it.. so most end up trying to use it.
May as well have the juice to back it up if you plan to use what ya have.
 

Anonymous
 
thanks its good to get some different opinions on this. I just contacted ( i think mike?) from excessive amperage and said that he can send me an alternator reconstruction kit that will boost my alt to 180 amps. Of course a lot of soldering to do but for around 100 bucks im very drawn to this deal. One question is would it be better if i would just get a mono class d amp for the speakers? i know its way off topic.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 4194
Registered: Nov-04
If the speakers you're referring to is subs, then class D will work fine.
Before you dish out your money, make sure excessive amperage wans't affected by the storm. Somemone mentioned that he might be.
 

Silver Member
Username: Fandim

Reno, Nevada United State...

Post Number: 127
Registered: Jun-05
Curious, how important is the engine to chasis when it comes to electrical current? What does this particular wire actually help in relationship to the car audio...?
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9893
Registered: Dec-03
yes. it grounds the connection for the alternator itself.
 

Silver Member
Username: Fandim

Reno, Nevada United State...

Post Number: 130
Registered: Jun-05
Heh...got the other two majorly upgraded, never really understood the whole "engine to chasis" wire, though.. Can I just attach this to a bolt holding the alternator in place?
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9907
Registered: Dec-03
just replace the friggin engine ground strap. we've had this out in like three different threads now and it's getting on my nerves lol
the engine is mounted to the frame using rubber isolators and the connection between frame and chassis/body isn't always good, if there at all, so the alternator is grounded to the body through the grounding strap. So is your ignition system, and numerous other parts of the electrical system dealing with engine management. If the alternator doesn't have as solid a ground as it has a positive connection, it's not going to make a solid circuit.

It's not that hard to understand.. really.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9908
Registered: Dec-03
by the way, do you ever sleep?
it seems like no matter when I post a message, you follow it up with responses and mroe questions within a minute and a half of me.. it makes it hard to get through the forums without losing my last message read markers.
 

Anonymous
 
no i was talking about speakers not subs. im looking at the class a/b and mono. i mean if i get a 200x1 at 4ohm amp then i can divide the 200 into 100 each?
 

Silver Member
Username: Fandim

Reno, Nevada United State...

Post Number: 132
Registered: Jun-05
GlassWolf, I've never asked anything about the Big 3 before, heh. :-P So we havnt had this out in 3 forums. lol.

Also - I was actually wondering if YOU ever slept, lol. But you beat me to the question.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9928
Registered: Dec-03
class D mono amps are for subs only. they can't handle anything above about 200Hz.
If this is a full range amp it'll be class AB or class T and it'll be at least 2 channels.

no. I never sleep. I'm just a glitch in the server.
 

Anonymous
 
thanks glasswolf.
 

Anonymous
 
but one thing i still dont get about the gains. Lets say i set the gains to 48 volts for what around 1200 watts right? if i would set it to 40 then i wouldnt have to use all potential of the amp. hahaha im much into getting huge amps just to leave doors open in the future :-)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Spanky34

Camargo, IL USA

Post Number: 45
Registered: Aug-05
i still dont know where to get a high output alternator. I REALLY NEED ONE. Do i have to buy a new alt or can i just have mine fixed. I know i have asked this before but everyone seems to avoid the ?
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 2147
Registered: Feb-05
www.excessiveamperage.com but since the huriccane came thru im not sure whats going on. Im stilling waiting on my 180A alternator from nathan. I hope everything is ok with him.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Spanky34

Camargo, IL USA

Post Number: 46
Registered: Aug-05
how big of an alt would i need for an orion 2500d amplifier.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 4226
Registered: Nov-04
200A.
 

Anonymous
 
and my question?
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9947
Registered: Dec-03
if you set the gain too low, you'll just use more amplifeir power to get the same audible volume, amplifying a weaker signal with a higher noise floor and resultant increased distortion.
If you set the gain too high you're going to overdrive the amp into clipping unless you know exactly where clipping begins and you don't exceed that volume level.. but you can't do that because the reference recording level for just about every CD, radio station, and media format is different so you'll never use the same volume setting for the same amount of power.
Using a zero refrence signal tone, you can set gains to the proper point, and never drive the amp into clipping and at the same time, not sacrifice any signal resolution or quality.
 

Anonymous
 
zero reference tone. gotcha :-) thank you
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9960
Registered: Dec-03
being 0dBA reference, at whatever frequency you use from a tone generator or test tone CD. You just don't want a weak recording or one that's recorded "into the red."
I believe the IASCA test CD tones are at 0dBA
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