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New member Username: Jay487Post Number: 1 Registered: Aug-05 | Please excuse my ignorance, as Im not that knowledgeable with car audio. Anyways, my friend installed my system for me, and hes done quite a few, he knows what hes doing. I have a Pioneer HU, 6700 MP. 2 12 Inch AudioBahn Subs (AWC12T's) and One Orion HCCA 225 Amp (rated at 400 watts) Ive been blowing fuses since installation... and cant figure out why. I had a 30A fuse in the amp... so I tried a 40A since thats what the previous owner used. It blew a 40, so I turned the gain down about 1/4 turn. It Blew another 40A. Im not sure why it keeps doing this, any advice? system sounds good when its working...and gain was NOT all the way up on installation (3/4 of the way up maybe?) Thanks for any help... |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 9063 Registered: Dec-03 | well at full output that amplifier can draw about 50A of current to produce 400 watts RMS. It's an old class AB amplifier. If a 50A fuse blows, you have a defective amplifier. |
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New member Username: Jay487Post Number: 2 Registered: Aug-05 | The manual says to run a 30A. Using a 40A was iffy, as that amp gets HOT, and even melted the plastic around where the fuse plugs in, and I had to pull it out with pliers. If a 40A fuse did that, wouldnt a 50A be way too high? |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 9081 Registered: Dec-03 | 400 watts from a class AB amplifier 50% efficiency (solid state) 400 watts / 12 volts * 1.5 (efficiency factor) comes out to around 50A. 30A would work at less than full output, which is what Orion figured most people would be running anyway. it's still sounding like the amplifier is defective though. Did you buy it used? |
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New member Username: Jay487Post Number: 3 Registered: Aug-05 | Yes I did buy it used... it worked for a few weeks without blowing any fuses.. Id put a 50 in there, but it got so hot with a 40 it actually started melting plastic...not sure if a 50A would be safe. Anyway I can test if its actually defective or not? |
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New member Username: Jay487Post Number: 4 Registered: Aug-05 | ^^^ Just to add on to my previous post, if a 40A was melting the plastic around where the fuse plugs into the amp, a 50A would only draw more current, making it even hotter, no? |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 3836 Registered: Nov-04 | Jason, did you say the gain/level was 3/4 of the way up? That is way too high. According to your post, your amp is set for 1v - 1.5v input. Have you read your HU's manual? It'll tell you what the RCA preouts are. I'm guessing it's around 4v. No wonder why you're blowing the fuses. Set it properly and use no higher than 30A x 2 fuses. The 225G4 amps can handle up to 5v max in, and 9v max at minimum setting. If your amp is just 225 HCCA, then it is probably the 1st or 2nd generation. I don't think those handled 5v. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 3837 Registered: Nov-04 | Don't use 50A fuses unless you really want to see some fireworks on the amp. |
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New member Username: Jay487Post Number: 6 Registered: Aug-05 | By the way, when I FIRST started blowing fuses, I had a 30A from the battery (on the amp wire) and also a 30A in the amp itself. However, it never blew the 30A on the battery, it always used to blow the one actually in the fuse first. That was until I changed the amp fuse to a 40. issac: on crutchfield.com, for the 6700, it says "preamp voltage: 2.2v" heres a link if you want to double check: http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=300&id=features_and_specs&i=130DEHP670 What do you mean exactly by "set it properly?" If youre talking about setting my gain according to the preamp output...which is 2.2v, ive never done that, and am unsure how to. Thanks for all your help thus far. |
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New member Username: Jay487Post Number: 8 Registered: Aug-05 | sigh. Why cant you edit posts. Anways, just a correcton from my 2nd sentence from my previous post. [it always used to blow the one actually in the AMP* first] |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 3839 Registered: Nov-04 | I think you have one of the 1st or 2nd generation HCCA amps. Those probably only had 2v max in. So set the gain to minimum setting on the amp. BTW, you mentioned 30A fuse on the amp. According to Orion's manual, it accepts 25A x 2 fuses. So when you say 30A, are you talking about 30A x 2 or 30A total fuse size? Anyhow, match the gain on the amp to your HU and it should stop blowing fuses. |
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New member Username: Jay487Post Number: 9 Registered: Aug-05 | my HU has a gain? :x How do I tell what the gain on my HU is? and when I mean 30A fuse i mean the fuse says 30A on it and I plug it into the amp...theres only 1 spot for a fuse on that amp, and I also put in a 30A maxi fuse (off the battery). So theres 2 DIFFERENT types of fuses, in 2 different places, both 30A. (or they will be when I go and buy them) |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 3840 Registered: Nov-04 | The gain setting is on the amp. Your HU will put out 2.5v max. How many 30A fuses are there on the amp? On the Orion's manual/chart, it says 2 fuses. |
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New member Username: Jay487Post Number: 10 Registered: Aug-05 | theres only one fuse on the amp... at least theres only one you can change. I will take pictures later when I return home (2 hours or so) |
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Bronze Member Username: Jay487Post Number: 11 Registered: Aug-05 | Here are some pictures for clarification. Heres 2 Overhead pictures of the whole installaion, so you get an idea what youre looking at. http://www.elite-p imps.com/staff/poLman/amp/overview1.jpg http://www.elite-p imps.com/staff/poLman/amp/overview2.jpg Heres Each Side Of The Amp http://www.elite-p imps.com/staff/poLman/amp/leftside.jpg http://www.elite-p imps.com/staff/poLman/amp/rightside.jpg - NOTICE THE PLASTIC MELTED AROUND THE FUSE Fuse From The Battery: http://www.elite-p imps.com/staff/poLman/amp/batteryfuse.jpg My Subs, In Case They Matter: http://www.elite-p imps.com/staff/poLman/amp/subs.jpg |
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Bronze Member Username: Jay487Post Number: 12 Registered: Aug-05 | Here are some pictures for clarification. Heres 2 Overhead pictures of the whole installaion, so you get an idea what youre looking at. http://www.elite-p imps.com/staff/poLman/amp/overview1.jpg http://www.elite-p imps.com/staff/poLman/amp/overview2.jpg Heres Each Side Of The Amp http://www.elite-p imps.com/staff/poLman/amp/leftside.jpg http://www.elite-p imps.com/staff/poLman/amp/rightside.jpg - NOTICE THE PLASTIC MELTED AROUND THE FUSE Fuse From The Battery: http://www.elite-p imps.com/staff/poLman/amp/batteryfuse.jpg My Subs, In Case They Matter: http://www.elite-p imps.com/staff/poLman/amp/subs.jpg NOTE** Youll Have To Copy And Paste LINKS and remove the space between the p and i in "p-i-m-p"....someone apparantly thought the word "p-i-m-p" was sooo derogatory that they wont allow it to be posted. Im glad were adults here.... anyways, youll have to copy and paste, yell at moderators for that one. Sorry. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 3842 Registered: Nov-04 | I tried the link. It doesn't work at all. Maybe you can email me the pictures. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jay487Post Number: 14 Registered: Aug-05 | even if you copy the link, remove the space betwen the p and i, and then repaste it in your browser? works for me... |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 3843 Registered: Nov-04 | Yup. I removed the space. Nothing worked. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jay487Post Number: 15 Registered: Aug-05 | Do you happen to have AOL instant messenger? If not, leave your email, and Ill try to email them to you. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 3844 Registered: Nov-04 | You can send me by clicking on my name. I included my email address there. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jay487Post Number: 16 Registered: Aug-05 | youre not taking out the - between elite and pim ps are you? Ive sent the link to dozens of other people, it works for every person... it should read exactly as is, elite-p imps (i cant type the word without the space, because its blocked. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 3846 Registered: Nov-04 | I tried many times and it comes up blank. I only took out the space between p and i. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 9089 Registered: Dec-03 | just turn the amplifier gain dial all the way counter-clockwise (down) to minimum. then turn it up slightly.. not three quarters of the way up. see if that helps. the older HCCA amps didn't even have internal fusing, Isaac. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 9090 Registered: Dec-03 | btw, it's normal for an HCCA amp at low loads to run extremely hot. 150-180degF or so is typical. you're drawing a lot of current through an old amplifier that uses solid state components. It's also class AB so it generates a tremendous amount of heat. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 3849 Registered: Nov-04 | Ahh, makes sense now then. The manual I looked at had 2 fuses on the 225 HCCA. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 9093 Registered: Dec-03 | is it the PDF format manual from orion? if so that was for the later generation amplifiers. they made subtle improvements with each revision of the amps.. the ones I mostly worked with were the old first and secong gen ones, up to about when Orion released their Cobalt series products. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jay487Post Number: 17 Registered: Aug-05 | should I get a new amp? some people have been telling me my subs are too big for the amp, and theyre just trying to pull too much.. im not sure otherwise why it would be doing this. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jay487Post Number: 18 Registered: Aug-05 | glass- Ive tried that.... as a matter of fact last night I had my system up and it cut out so i figured it blew a fuse...it came back about 30 mins later (maybe thermal protection?) but something isnt right. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 9100 Registered: Dec-03 | subs get whatever power the amplifier gives them.. speakers don't actually "pull" anything "from" an amplifier, so to speak.. so at worst, you'd just be underpowering the subs and not getting much output as a result. I'm thinking something is wrong with that amplifier, seriously. you really may want to consider getting it checked out at a shop to see if it can be repaired. Being that you got it used, there's a good chance it was dumped because it had issues already. That happens a lot. Especially on ebay. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jay487Post Number: 19 Registered: Aug-05 | Thats about all that makes sense, is a defective amp, hope it doenst cost much to get checked out |