Archive through September 16, 2006
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3959 Registered: Dec-04 | Interesting 50's English furniture... http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/36610-four__quad__esl_57__speakers_/ |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3966 Registered: Dec-04 | R.I.P. Maynard Ferguson |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3990 Registered: Dec-04 | Mr. John A. Profile updated. Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4510 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Nuck. Sorry to hear about MF. That seems an outstanding deal on ESL 57 speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4511 Registered: Dec-03 | Another new trick Eye TV DTT. "Digital Terrestrial Television" - DTT - includes radio. One can just listen, and the sound is not bad. One can also record. The resulting audio files are in MPEG-4, Apple Lossless (high bit rate - none of this mp3/aac/HD-radio rubbish). Export to iTunes, then burn an audio CD, making aiff files. You then have a full-strength CD. This can be played on a CD player, with better DACs etc than the computer that wrote the files. My first results, recording a couple of live performances, are very satisfactory. Unlike current iTunes Music Store downloads.... We have a Miglia, not Elgato, DTT stick, for reasons of availability, but it runs the same software. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 132 Registered: May-06 | Nice little thing isn't it? Too bad it does not have RCA Audion Inputs. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 801 Registered: Nov-05 | AUDIOPHILA NERVOSA Gotta love this article by Steve Guttenburg: http://www.chesky.com/core/body_librarydetails.cfm?newsid=160 |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 802 Registered: Nov-05 | AUDIOPHILIA NERVOSA Gotta love this article by Steve Guttenburg: http://www.chesky.com/core/body_librarydetails.cfm?newsid=160 |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4513 Registered: Dec-03 | It's good, My Rantz! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4032 Registered: Dec-04 | Was the guy hiding in my closet?!?! |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1543 Registered: Oct-04 | Well, dawgs, Mer and I are back in Swampville after 4,000 miles on the road. Sigh. The Camry ran well in general - but the wind and road noise above 50 mph are just too much! Above 60 mph, no talk or music. The transmission has major problems - so the car will go into the shop next week. Maybe I shuddah bought the Honda????? Notes from the road: this country is full of real-jerk drivers. As if y'all didn't know that! Finally found "the right" place to move to - IF we can sell our house in Naples. The market here has collapsed. York County, SC, just south of Charlotte, NC. Beautiful, and the area has EVERYTHING. Not much else new - Mer and I are still speaking, and the sun rises daily. Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 619 Registered: Mar-04 | "Finally found "the right" place to move to - IF we can sell our house in Naples. The market here has collapsed. York County, SC, just south of Charlotte, NC. Beautiful, and the area has EVERYTHING." Larry, I have a friend that moved down from NY to Spartanburg, SC a few years ago. Not too far from Charlotte. I guess he likes it, especially the winters. I'm starting to wonder if he's adjusting a bit too well though as he really looks forward to the weekly arrival of the Goober Wagon at the local K-Mart, and also the annual Bubba-Fest.  Other friends have been trying to sell their condo in Naples as well. They found their "right place" to retire - Lake Tahoe area. They're not having much luck the past year or so. As you said, the market seems to have collapsed. Sorry to hear about your Camry. Must have been built on a Monday. Quite unusual for that make to have so many problems. We have two still going strong. The older one is approaching 200k miles. But it does seem to have the wind noise issue you mention. Also we have a Corolla that my son drives around, so Toyota has surely benefitted somewhat from the Sem family. |
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Bronze Member Username: JazzwannabePost Number: 26 Registered: Mar-06 | Larry, Sorry to hear about the wind and road noise levels on your Camry. I was aware of that issue as I had waited to read "first drive" impressions from pro reviewers. About the transmission problem, never heard of any until now. The noise level issue is surprising because I have an old 1998 LE and even today, when I drive at over 100 km/h, I can still hear my music or carry on a conversation with my passengers at normal volume. Re: Honda, I used to own a '92 Accord and lease a 2002 CRV both of which, to me, had intolerable road and wind noise levels. I sold the former and replaced it with my present Camry; returned the latter at the end of the lease in March and replaced it with something else, not a Honda. Just my opinion only. . . "...York County, SC, just south of Charlotte, NC. Beautiful, and the area has EVERYTHING" Except hurricanes, I hope? Regards, Don |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9095 Registered: May-04 | . I still have my 1985 CRX Si and it still sounds like a car should. Just my opinion though. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9096 Registered: May-04 | . I think the question should be asked; did you buy a car to drive or as a space to use while talking to your friends and listening to music. If the former, there are few better places to perform that task. If the latter, there are many places much better suited to the task. And, while we're at it; what's with a back seat? . |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1544 Registered: Oct-04 | Actually, Jan, I only bought the car for an alternate listening room. But I do need occasional groceries, so I thought 2-fer-1 - whadda deal! (double grin) Newspaper: "Naples home sales are down 44% from last year at this time." Not good for us. . . Online research pulls up many people who are having awful shift-problems with the 2007 Camry. And the road noise - well, our old '95 Camry was about twice as quiet. Really. . . I test-drove a 2006 Honda Accord - before buying the Camry - and the road noise, while noticeable, was nowhere as loud as the Camry noise level. Think I'll go out in the garage, put on a CD, and use the car for what I really wanted - a second listening room! That's what the back seat is for. Listening. OK, Jan? (triple grin) Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1545 Registered: Oct-04 | oops, forgot. Sem - FYI, Spartanburg is light-years away from Charlotte. You go to Spartanburg if you're a very, very fundamental Christian. Think "Bob Jones University" and you've pegged the area. Hmm. . . . . . |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9097 Registered: May-04 | . Having a car you visit in the garage is an alternative to one you can drive. I had one of those at one time. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 620 Registered: Mar-04 | Bob Jones? I think he won the 1996 Bubba-Fest title, no? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4036 Registered: Dec-04 | I personally have enjoyed several garage cars with stereo and little else. From the back seat of the 78 Volvo, I could reach through the open defroster hole for the cooler, and still reach the stereo in front. Why? Why not? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3526 Registered: Feb-05 | "Sorry to hear about your Camry. Must have been built on a Monday. Quite unusual for that make to have so many problems." Actually we replaced our 2004 Camry with Mazda's. The Camry was in the shop every other week for one reason or another. We bought 2 little 2004 Mazda 3's and have been havin' a ball with them ever since. They do suffer from high levels of wind and road noise and even worse their A/C is the worst I've ever used. Fortunately I'm not a big fan of A/C anyway. They are quite a fun ride and even better, so far they only go to the shop for oil changes. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1546 Registered: Oct-04 | Seems like I'm not alone with my Camry transmission woes. So far, I've logged more than 200 pages of owner complaints on various forums, and on the Toyota discussion site. The car goes into the shop mid-week. Sigh. We'll see. Meanwhile, anybody thinking of buying a Camry V6, better think twice! |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1411 Registered: Dec-03 | And, while we're at it; what's with a back seat? It's for the rebith of the Drive in Theater. Sorry Dogs, I couldn't pass on that one. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9099 Registered: May-04 | . I thought that's what lawn chairs were for. Oh, ... oh, you mean to use the back seat. Yep, wouldn't want to do that on a lawn chair. . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3527 Registered: Feb-05 | Try it you might like it! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4040 Registered: Dec-04 | Generally, I find the loudest complaints coming from the cheap seats. Excepting at a drive-in(still one going close to us) where the complaints come from the lawn chairs set up close. We sit in the rear, dark and un-intrusive-like.(thats now a word). |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 811 Registered: Nov-05 | Glad you and Mer arrived home safely Larry. Again, sorry about Camry - but you might win the trip to outer space. Bet you won't worry about road noise on that one! From road noise to 'doing it' on a lawn chair in only 9 posts. Only on Old Dogs! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4043 Registered: Dec-04 | Zero to whoopie in 9 flat. T'ain't nuthin wrong there. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 812 Registered: Nov-05 | The NAD M55 Universal player gets a nod on this review: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?rdgtl&1147623522&read&3&4& |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9103 Registered: May-04 | . The problem I see with the lawn chair bit is you could loose your popcorn. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 813 Registered: Nov-05 | They're getting cornier! Nuck, thanx for the dust art. Some Texans are quite talented, believe it or not. [grin] |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3532 Registered: Feb-05 | "you could loose your popcorn." Yeah! |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 150 Registered: May-06 | MR - "They're getting cornier! " Nice double entendre' |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4056 Registered: Dec-04 | RIP, Steve Irwin. But really, what did you think would happen? |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 814 Registered: Nov-05 | RIP - Steve Irwin (The Crocodile Hunter). Love him or hate him, no one can deny his passion or enthusiasm. A freak accident has taken a gutsy character who, with his accentuated ocker accent, brought much attention to the fight for survival of marine and other wild life here and elsewhere. A man who could easily deflect barbs from humans but not so from stringrays. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 815 Registered: Nov-05 | What! You telepathic or something Nuck? |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1412 Registered: Dec-03 | you could lose your popcorn.............. not to mention spill your drink! Good grief. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3534 Registered: Feb-05 | Oh my! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9119 Registered: May-04 | . Shhhhhhhh, you'll wake someone. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1875 Registered: Feb-04 | I guess this is the "talk about nothing" thread? |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 621 Registered: Mar-04 | Police in Tauranga in New Zealand getting wide criticism for arresting 31-year-old Colin Smith for being a dangerous driver. He has no license, he has no arms. He was driving at 75-miles-an-hour, one foot on the pedals, the other on the steering wheel. But apparently he was really good at this. The charge has now been dropped. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4516 Registered: Dec-03 | Cool, Sem. I've been burning some discs in different formats to see how the same recorded material sounds when played on CD and DVD (24-bit Linear PCM at 48 and 96 kHz). The source is digital terrestrial live broadcasts. See my post, above, August 30. My preliminary but clear conclusion is that music sounds better without the video. That is subjective, of course... Further comparisons, on the audio only, will be forthcoming. It is vaguely on-topic. But only two-channel. Sorry I have no views on Camries. Except I am always baffled by the names of Japanese motor cars. I quite fancy a Toyota Prius, but could never drive something that sounded like I've got too much popcorn. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4517 Registered: Dec-03 | BTW there is a story in Sept HFN that it looks like Apple is preparing to provide "Lossless" MPEG-4 files for purchased download from the iTunes music store. In my opinion the whole downloading issue will then become something that has to do with HiFi, which it is not. Not really. Not yet. My one iTunes purchase so far (also posted above, somewhere) was a total waste of money, except for the lesson learned. Atrocious sound. Copy-limited, too, so fewer people will hear what cr_p it is. No listed recording date, either. It could be out of the digital ark, I suppose. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 622 Registered: Mar-04 | Formatting ErrorThe formatting code popjpeg requires 2 argument(s); you provided only 1 argument(s). |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4518 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, if it's arguments they want, this is the place.... Let me just fly the flag. Well, lots of flags. The last night of the proms was glorious. It is now a send-up of itself. Great. Viktoria Mullova Wasn't wearing a pullover In fact, their were bits Where she showed off her bowing technique Be patient, friends, it's only once a year. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4080 Registered: Dec-04 | A Shame. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 624 Registered: Mar-04 | "Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?" (The man behind the desk in room 12A). Ok, I'm back after being suspended here, for some unknown reason. For grins, here's what I tried to do. I imported the PF song 'Eclipse' into Adobe Audition from two different sources. One was from MoFi's gold ultradisc, the other from the cd layer of the Guthrie-mastered SACD. Their waveforms looked quite a bit different when comparing them to each other. After having saved the output as a jpg file, I tried to upload the image here. I'm evidentally not tech-savvy enough to share it with you. Ah well.. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 165 Registered: May-06 | You may have run into file size limitations. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4104 Registered: Dec-04 | 'A man has to know his limitations'...Clint Eeastwood. Watched 'Back to the Future' today. What's yer name? Eastwood...Clint Eastwood. What kind of stupid name is that?!? It seemed to fit...somehow. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3542 Registered: Feb-05 | I have been comparing Zaino Z-6 to Pledge all weekend (while reflecting as my Mother passed away on Friday) and there is no comparison the Zaino is head and shoulders better. I have been repairing the Pledge cleaned CD's and redoing all of the CD's cleaned prior to Zaino. I love the Zaino, guess I'll have to splurge for more. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1450 Registered: May-05 | My sincere condolences Art. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9133 Registered: May-04 | . Sorry to hear that, Art. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1549 Registered: Oct-04 | At: I repeat here what I said on an alternate thread. You are in our thoughts and prayers. Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 625 Registered: Mar-04 | Art, sorry to hear this. My condolences. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4521 Registered: Dec-03 | Mine, too, Art. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3543 Registered: Feb-05 | Thank you all for your thoughts, I truly appreciate it. Back to work as I hear the taskmaster nearing. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 830 Registered: Nov-05 | Art, again our condolences. At this time, I thought this copy of a letter I received in an e-mail may be appropriate for those of you in the US who may be reflecting on that awful event 5 yrs ago. Dear Terrorists, I am a Navy Aviator. I was born and raised in a small town in New England. I come from a family of five. I was raised in a middle class home and taught my values by my mother and father. My dad worked a series of jobs in finance and my mom took care of us kids. We were not an overly religious family but attended church most Sundays. It was a nice small Episcopal Church. I have a brother and Sister and I am the youngest in my family. I was the first in many generations to attend college. I have flown Naval aircraft for 16 years. For me the flying was never a lifelong dream or a "calling," it just happened. I needed a job and I liked the challenge. I continue to do it today because I feel it is important to give back to a nation which has given so much to me. I do it because, although I will never be rich, my family will be comfortable. I do it because many of my friends have left for the airlines and someone has to do it. My government has spent millions to train me to fly these multi-million dollar aircraft. I make about 70,000 dollars a year and after 20 years will be offered a pension. I like baseball but think the players make too much money. I am in awe of firemen and policemen and what they do each day for my community, and like teachers, they just don't get paid enough. I respect my elders and always use sir or ma'am when addressing a stranger. I'm not sure about kids these days but I think that's normal for every generation. I tell you all this because when I come for you, I want you to know me. I won't be hiding behind a woman or a child. I won't be disguised or pretending to be something I am not. I will be in a U.S. Issue flight suit. I will be wearing standard US issue flight gear, and I will be flying a Navy aircraft clearly marked as a US warplane. I wish we could meet up close in a small room where I could wrap my hands around your throat and slowly squeeze the life out of you, but unfortunately, You're hiding in a hole in the ground, So we will have to do this a different way. I want you to know also that I am very good at what I do. I can put a 2,000 lb weapon through a window from 10,000 feet up. I generally only fly at night, so you may want to start sleeping during the day. I am not eager to die for my country but I am willing to sacrifice my life to protect it from animals like you. I will do everything in my power to ensure no civilians are hurt as I take aim at you. My countrymen are a forgiving bunch. Many are already forgetting what you did on Sept 11th. But I will not forget!! I am coming. I hope you know me a little bit better, see you soon...sleep tight. Signed A US. Navy Pilot Our Soldiers are one Of our greatest assets! God Bless |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3544 Registered: Feb-05 | I shared that letter at work MR. We all enjoyed it, thank you. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 836 Registered: Nov-05 | Glad to pass it on Art. Take care. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 1084 Registered: Feb-04 | My condolence to you Art. May you live long enough for time to heal this wound. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3545 Registered: Feb-05 | It's been a year of loss for me. First my Father in January (the week after budget cuts forced me from a position I love to one I don't enjoy), now my Mother. My son has returned to Oregon from a second tour in Iraq and appears to be a lost soul. We went from being close to having virtually no relationship and my daghter married someone who I simply can't accept. I have a coworker who was arrested as a pedophile (not good when you work with families and children). I warned the agency 1 1/2 years ago that I felt that his behavior appeared to be inappropriate. They chose to ignore it and now that it turns out that I'm right and only myself and a few others know the truth they are on a harrassment campaign to force me to either promise my silence or leave. Ofcourse I will do neither. Tough year yet I feel that I really am getting stronger. My resolve is to stay positive is unwavering. I once again thank all of you for your thoughts and would now like to turn my attention to NYC and the beautiful people we lost on 9/11. I have friends and coworkers from NYC but today is not only about them but about all of us and our great loss as a society. We were all victims that day and it is a time that we will all remember. We all know where we were when it happened. Today I pray for my Mother and the nearly 3000 other souls that she joins in Gods kingdom. Peace out. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4523 Registered: Dec-03 | Art, I hesitate to intrude at this time, but I am moved by what you have written, and think I can see some linking seams in these recent posts. I heard a radio program earlier today about the brave woman who first "blew the whistle" on Enron's accounting procedures. The lesson I draw, and she drew, is that individuals have a duty to speak out against what they feel to be wrong. Free and open societies are ones where good people can and will survive, even though what they have to say is inconvenient to others who may, temporarily, be in positions of authority. I think that, as individuals, we owe a debt to all those who have stood up against the mob and helped to secure freedom for different sorts of people; protection for those, such as children, who are unable to fend for themselves; and societies that are capable of change and improvement. I submit that 9/11 came from people who want the opposite of all these things. They want closed societies where individuals have no choice but to obey, and where power is absolute and in few hands - probably theirs and those of their friends. They see "The West" as a threat. They are right; it is. But universal peace and prosperity, if such a thing is possible, will come from the sum of individuals standing up for what they believe, while respecting the rights of others to hold and express a different view. Art, you are not alone. When you speak out and do the right thing, you are striking a blow for justice, and helping to maintain the kind of society the bombers rightly fear. Seeing the kind of guy you are, I feel sure your mother and father, who must have been good people, too, would have wanted that. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 840 Registered: Nov-05 | Well stated John. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9140 Registered: May-04 | . Until we make whistle blowing illegal. Which we in the US are in the process of doing right now. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4114 Registered: Dec-04 | For a couple of kids coming home from service,on the flight from Philly to Topeka today, I sure saw 2 very very blank faces. My thoughts are with you Art. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4524 Registered: Dec-03 | "Until we make whistle blowing illegal". Even more reason to do it. All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Attributed to Edmund Burke. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 331 Registered: Dec-03 | We are well on our way to killing another 3,000 U.S. souls trying to catch the evil men from Iraq who made 9/11 happen. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 844 Registered: Nov-05 | Let's not try and catch them. And let many more 9/11's happen. But that's what the deployment of the military should be for: catching the evil men. Not to be an excuse for other reasons. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 332 Registered: Dec-03 | 1. That's the point! Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or the war on terror. 2. The email is not real. Most likely it was written by a clueless neocon who is trying (yet again) to politicize 9/11. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4138 Registered: Dec-04 | Politicizing the tragity of the human condition is nothing new. Nor is the rationalizing of irrational acts. The acting out of the emotions of outrage can spray it's ugly afflictions in many ways, and with layers of culpability. The ugliness of revenge can be as global as invasion, with hundreds of thousand of lives at stake overseas, or as brutal and sobering as a gun attack at a college in Montreal. Both are, unfortunately, again, a modern daily event. I see no recourse for humankind. I seldom find redeeming qualities among leaders, and find none among the various madmen whom have desecrated the highest of values, human life, under any guise. Beit the mad young man with an automatic cruising through schools, or the madman gassing the poor, or overrunning countries, I find none. The only solstice I find with regularity is the comfort of my family, some nice music and a pleasant evening. Where does it all lead? We will all find out, my friends, but all in time. After we have all suffered the indignities of global aspirations. After we have all seen so many of the indigities man can inflict upon man. After such atrocities, so as to make an innocent man weep, a guilty man mock redemption(yet again), and in the end, the truth of life after death, be it everlasting or not. If this is life everlasting, I am not sure I want to contribute. It is enough to make an altruist blush, a liar rich and the common folks roll in the mire of mediacrocrity, in the faith of a diety which is ever shifting, ever elusive and never exposing itself. I seem rather moot. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9146 Registered: May-04 | . While we're on the subject? Gas: $2.31 @ gallon. Down from a high of $3.17 a five weeks ago. Oil closed at $63 a barrel today, down from $76 a barrel five weeks ago. 53 days until mid-term elections. What do you think gas will cost 60 days from now? . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3547 Registered: Feb-05 | Well I'm certainly glad we raised this subject...geez. Gas here is barley down at all...let's face it Texas is another world. I wasn't speaking politics at all but it's nice to know that for some illegal whistle blowing is what came to mind. Well, off to see what other threads we can watch degenerate into partisan B.S. Have a great evening. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 333 Registered: Dec-03 | What is terrorism? What is freedom? Does the "western world" hold the rights to define what these mean? I feel that it is important to think about that because you hear those words thrown here (and in everyday life). I don't have the answer, I wish I did. I fear that torture and killing are not the correct solutions (Israel has been trying that for decades). The thing to remember is that there are hundreds of thousands of Iraq citizens that are living 9/11 on a daily basis...except we (US, UK, etc...) are the terrorists. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3548 Registered: Feb-05 | Who doesn't think about these issues Ben? Since this is not a partisan think tank I'm just not sure this is the place to air partisan views. It is divisive rather than inclusive which is what I for one would like to see this audio forum be. I'm not sure but I believe sectarian violence among different Muslim groups in Iraq are perpetrating most of the killing at this point. Isn't that the same folks responsible for 9/11. We could ofcourse go deeper and discuss U.S. policy in the middle east that led to the events of 9/11. Policy that has been in place for decades, long before Bush, Clinton or any other living president. Most Americans are not in the mood to hear how their countries stubborn support of one group over another and constant exploitation of the resources of the rest of the world has led to international resentment. Most folks, when it comes down to it, would rather ignore that and protect the present decadent American way of life, after all most of on both sides of the debate benefit greatly from our access to resources that only belong to us by force. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9150 Registered: May-04 | . "I'm not sure but I believe sectarian violence among different Muslim groups in Iraq are perpetrating most of the killing at this point. Isn't that the same folks responsible for 9/11." Uh, ... no. Which Iraqi sectarian Muslim group do you think was responsible for 9-11? Sorry, Art, the rest of your comment doesn't deserve further attention. I expect that type of dialogue to come from Michael Savage or Gordon Liddy, not from a thinking, reasoning human being. There are the so called "blame America first" thinkers and then there are the "blame America never" thinkers. Everyone gets to decide where they fit between those two poles. Surely you can't think this occupation of two countries is going well. . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3549 Registered: Feb-05 | You know what Vigne the most important comment I made was that this is not the place for partisan politics. I tried to share something that happened in my life and then put into the context of more important world events. You ofcourse, always wary of a way to politicize anything I say or just flat out put me down took the conversation down to the next level. You sir (or madam) are a piece of work. Thanks for doing your level best to make others lives more bearable. Thank you to the others who've given your condolences. I will look in on this forum from time to time but as long as the likes of Vigne are here this place is not good for me to be at this time in my life. "not from a thinking, reasoning human being" That kind of degrading comment is what many of us have come to expect from you. It's a shame that you are not banned from this forum. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4148 Registered: Dec-04 | Uncalledfor, Jan. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9151 Registered: May-04 | . I posted it. I meant it. Art tried to "share something that happened in my life and then put into the context of more important world events"? If Art is trying to wrap his grief around the political satement he made, I don't see the connection. If he doesn't care to accept my honest condolences, that's his business. He doesn't have to throw them back in my face. That is uncalled for. If he meant something else, I don't get that either. He is flat wrong about Iraqi Muslims being implicated in anyway with 9-11. Even Bush acknowledges that much. Sooner or later the KoolAid drinkers are going to have to face some sort of reality. He made the statements but doesn't seem to want to justify his comments. If he didn't feel this was the place for partisan comments, why did he go on to make partsian comments? He should not be ignorant of his audience here, at this point in time. Art wants to think I am picking on him. Oh, please, don't cry in my milk. Anyone here who doesn't think I would have had the same comments to anyone else hasn't been paying attention. Art didn't have to inject his comments, but he chose to. He could have stopped after stating he didn't want to inject politics. But he went on and injected what I see as blatant political comments. Don't make me the villian. I didn't force his post out of him. I find his comments extremely offensive. I find his roll over attitude beyond belief and a clear reason so many people think this country is headed in the wrong direction. Quite honestly, I think it is all together called for to question the idea that we, as Americans, can ignore what is done in our name by our government. Obviously Art believes that the 51% W got in the last election qualifies as "most" Americans. Sorry, it does not. Decadent as we may be, the current American system is extreme capitalism, not unrelenting Imperialism. Under the current administration, and for twenty six of the last thirty eight years, America has been ruled by "free market" thinking. While I disagree with most of the processes put in place to prop up such an economic system, its principles dictate the strength of the market will be controlled by superior market conditions, not military hostility. I think if you look up the terms within the original 1922 fascismo manifesto, you'll see something more like what Art describes. Uncalled for?! All together called for! . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3550 Registered: Feb-05 | Reading is fundamental Jan...try reading for comprehension. As usual you completely misunderstand me but because you don't like me you make it up as you go. Like I said you are a piece of work. And no I don't accept your condolences, your words have spoken for themselves..... "If Art is trying to wrap his grief around the political satement he made, I don't see the connection" "I once again thank all of you for your thoughts and would now like to turn my attention to NYC and the beautiful people we lost on 9/11. I have friends and coworkers from NYC but today is not only about them but about all of us and our great loss as a society. We were all victims that day and it is a time that we will all remember. We all know where we were when it happened. Today I pray for my Mother and the nearly 3000 other souls that she joins in Gods kingdom. Peace out." That was my loaded political statement. That statement which was just to say that my grief was small compared to the grief that millions were likely feeling that day (as that was posted 9/11/06) and that I was thinking of those folks as well. Jan, you need to stop hiding behind your dislike for me. That's always what this is about with you. You hold a grudge and you won't let go. If you feel it is important to make up meaning for my statements then you should at least add a disclaimer "due to the fact that I don't like Art I choose to read into his statement the following" and leave it at that. "I find his comments extremely offensive." Again because you choose to read it ina a way that was not intended. "I find his roll over attitude beyond belief and a clear reason so many people think this country is headed in the wrong direction." I don't have a roll over attitude Jan I just choose to fight my political battles elsewhere. I would also add that to not agree with Jan is not to roll over it is to simply not agree with Jan (which by the way is not what I was doing in that post). If you are ever interested in finding out how easily I roll over you know where to find me. "He made the statements but doesn't seem to want to justify his comments." Don't need to! If he didn't feel this was the place for partisan comments, why did he go on to make partsian comments? He should not be ignorant of his audience here, at this point in time. Art wants to think I am picking on him. Oh, please, don't cry in my milk. Indeed I made one political after tiring of how my NOT polital statements had been turned into permission slip to turn this thread once again into a forum for partisan politics and the airing of one sides views. How you misunderstand the statement is that it mostly agrees with you but once again you would rather read it as divisive because of who wrote it rather than look for common ground. That's just who you are. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4156 Registered: Dec-04 | Without picking sides inthis furball, I have re-read this discourse several times. With a teensie bit of insight, and reading the posted opinions, I have a firm opinion, which, much to my chagrin, I will post. Knowing both(and some other) combatants a LITTLE bit, I think Jan overstepped, overtrod, and overlooked the postings here. Hey, for whatever reason, that's how it looks from my screen here. So go ahead and slag me, Jan, if you go back, take a deep breath and re-read, this got out of hand in a hurry. Y'all can kick my butt if yo want, but re-read first. Jan, lighten up a bit? I don't care if you dislike, or disagree with anyone(including me), but a little civility, a little more understanding about where people are coming from and a little more posting in appropriate places all around might help out a lot. I cannot find how 'illegal' whistle blowing has anything to do with kiddie-purn a@@holes anywhere. Throw them all away, with chemical or mechanical castration! Into General Population in Kansas! Oh wait, I'm still in Topeka! As soon as I leave then! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9152 Registered: May-04 | . "If you are ever interested in finding out how easily I roll over you know where to find me." What? Whadda want, Art? Pistols at dawn? Bare knuckles? A rough game of Twister? I've never expressed any dislike for you, Art, just disagreement over politics. What you make up in your head is not something I'm responsible for so let it go. Your referenced statement is four days old, Art. Four days! If you didn't want any more "politics", you should have stopped there. You shouldn't have made the statements about Muslims or "most Americans" are not this or that. Those comments were either intellectually dishonest or intellectually lazy. You get to pick. But, if you make that kind of statement, it is just plain dumb to expect me not to respond. And you know how I respond, Art. You don't like me when I respond. Read my post again, Art. It is a direct rebuttal of what you posted immediately before I made the comments. Just where would I have drawn the comment about Muslims if not from your immediately preceding post? Come on, Art. Be a man and either defend what you said or get over getting called on it. Don't come after me personally just because you have issues with me. I'm going to have to tell all of you, you are all just names on a forum to me. I don't know any of you well enough to dislike any of you and I don't have the time and energy to put into disliking someone on a forum. I have better things to do with my life than spend it disliking someone. But, let me tell ya, this stomping off an internet forum is getting old. The way I see it, there are noobies all over the forum. When you come to Old Dogs, you better be ready to play in the big leagues. This thread ain't for noobies. And when you get to Old Dogs, you don't go running to momma when you skin your knee. Nuck - Nobody asked you to decide who was at fault. Art - Weren't you headed out the door? . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3551 Registered: Feb-05 | No Jan I think I'll stick around but you're welcome to go anytime. I take it you make up the rules for the Old Dogs thread now Jan. It appears to include "playing in the big leagues". Whatever that means to you. Apparently it has nothing to do with leaving the diapers behind and growing up. "Be a man and either defend what you said or get over getting called on it." I would invite you to be whatever the heck you are and grow up. I didn't say anything that needs defended. "And when you get to Old Dogs, you don't go running to momma when you skin your knee." A little insensitive but considering the source just another in a long line of ridiculous statements. Oh that's right I guess I should be asking you to defend your silly statements but I won't because I couldn't bear to read it. "Your referenced statement is four days old, Art. Four days! If you didn't want any more "politics", you should have stopped there." It doesn't matter how old my referenced statement is Jan or do you get to make up the rules about that as well. "Well I'm certainly glad we raised this subject...geez. Gas here is barely down here at all...let's face it Texas is another world. I wasn't speaking politics at all but it's nice to know that for some illegal whistle blowing is what came to mind. Well, off to see what other threads we can watch degenerate into partisan B.S. Have a great evening." That one was yeterday does that meet your criteria. "I'm going to have to tell all of you, you are all just names on a forum to me. I don't know any of you well enough to dislike any of you and I don't have the time and energy to put into disliking someone on a forum. I have better things to do with my life than spend it disliking someone." I guess you think there is someone dumb enough to believe that! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4161 Registered: Dec-04 | Well Jan is on a pisser, and having a jolly old time of it, Art is not logging off, and everyone else is ignoring the whole pissing match. Well, then, ferk em' I am in. If y'all wanna get to it, then lead on. Where do we start? i think we are all tired of answering Onkyo crossover settings, and we seem beyond politeness and into the ugliest of provinces, politics. Hell, let's do religeon, just for laffs, huh? i will open with this. I like visiting and working in the US. I meet a lot of great, like oriented people down here(still in Topeka), but find a common thread among most of the folks I meet. Y'all do not know anything about your largest trading partner, your neighbor with which you share the largest unprotectected border in the world, and absolutely nothing about our diverse county. Open that, kids. Tell me why and how I can be such a good Canadian, and you cannot name our capital city, or our largest, and cannot name our national sport. It's off the previous topic, but name them. How many Canadians have died in Afghanistan? What % of our forces are there? How many new troops and tanks were comitted yesterday? Our government is tossing it all into Stan. Yeah we ain't got much, but here it is, 100%. Fergin Russians had to pull out after 12 years there, here is Canada trying to get peoples heads straight, while dodging the Taliban. We havn't done battle since Korea, for Chrissakes! Toss the boys and girls here a bone, this is where the future will be decided, Muslims and not. The attackers on 9/11 were Shiite, BTW, all Saudi. Gee, so are the Taliban. I don't care, just bring some peace. This time, Canadians aren't peace keepers, targets of goodwill, we are a fighting force, and one to be reckoned with in a foreign land, where the locals hold all the cards. Scary stuff to walk into. our commitment to NATO stans as tall as ever, because despite political unrest at home for the mission, some people know the importance of stepping up when the team(NATO) calls you to bat. That is where we are at. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 172 Registered: May-06 | Ottawa Toronto Hockey? 500 - 1000? 25% no clue |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 173 Registered: May-06 | I had this preview posted 3 days ago and pulled it back. Now I want it to be known. To me this is not about politics or economics, it's about freedoms. I am not looking for a debate but I will stand up to one. Sorry Jan and Art have crossed. I like you both, yes even on a forum, just my nature. The following is something I recieved via email. All comments or writings after this sentence are copied in. This should make you rethink your position on what is happening in the world. This is a very logical & succinct presentation which gives pause for very real concern! Everyone should read this before they vote in November. THE WAR Please take the time to read the attached essay by Dr. Chong. It is without a doubt the most articulate and convincing writing I have read regarding the War in Iraq and the war on terror. If you have any doubts please open your mind to his essay and give a fair evaluation. I had no idea who Dr. Chong is or the source of these thoughts...so when I received them, I almost deleted them - as well-written as they are. But then I did a "Google search" on t he Doctor and found him to be a retired Air Force Surgeon, of all things, and past Commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio. So he is real, is connected to Veterans affairs in California, and these are his thoughts. They are worth reading and thinking about!(the same Google search will direct you to some of his other thought-provoking writings.) Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA. A different spin on Iraq war. This WAR is for REAL! Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired Tuesday, July 12, 2005 To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII). The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means. First, let's examine a few basics: 1. When did the threat to us start? Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us: * Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979; * Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983; * Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983; * Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988; * First New York World Trade Center attack 1993; * Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996; * Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998; * Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998; * Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000; * New York World Trade Center 2001; * Pentagon 2001. (Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide). 2. Why were we attacked? Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the Presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter. 3. Who were the attackers? In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims. 4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%. 5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful? Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Natzees for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (see http://www.Natzees.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm ) Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Natzees, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom hear of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others. Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Natzees, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die? 6. So who are we at war with? There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting. So with that background, now to the two major questions: 1. Can we lose this war? 2. What does losing really mean? If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions... We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean? It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post-Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get. What losing really means is: We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorists to attack us until we were neutered and submissive to them. We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, that we are impotent and cannot help them. They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished. The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast! If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else? The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost. Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win. So, how can we lose the war? Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win! Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't compre-hend the life and death seriousness of this situation. President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transporta-tion. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently. And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then. Do I blame President Bush, or President Clinton before him? No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head. Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause. Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein. And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq. And still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held. Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them. Can this be for real? The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can. To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years. Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United State, but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense. We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world! We can't! If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated. And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world. This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire . If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read. If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar? Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically-correct piece by politically-correct piece. And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves once they are in power. They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"? I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it. After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world, whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal, and that includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4163 Registered: Dec-04 | I had to track back for the numbers, Mike, I kinda thought it would be rhetorical, actually. lacrosse, oficially. 1000 troops and tanks inclusive(I do not even know if they run, or the vintge). 60% of 'active troops now'.(hey, we be tree huggers) but here we go. The glory days of WW2 are long gone, when we made up a formidable fighting force, largely due to the our neighbors to the south, although our forces were in play in Korea, and largely unadvertised in Vietnam(12000 soldiers, many in support roles). Hey, it got tossed out there, I didn't want the boys from Lethbridge, Alta. being overlooked. Seems a free-fer-all-after-all. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 174 Registered: May-06 | And so you should be proud! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4164 Registered: Dec-04 | In the Stan, where the actual bad guys are. Thanks, Mike. A pint for all of our troops. Wherever they are, agreed or not, they need, they deserve, they require our support, our flags and our mail to them, no doubt. A shitthole to fight in. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 175 Registered: May-06 | Amen |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 176 Registered: May-06 | Edit to my post of Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 10:47 pm: I stated I like both Art and Jan, which in of itself is true. However the more accurate statement would be that I respect both of you, still like you too. This forum needs a little bit more respect and Nuck is a good example of such. We, myself included, tend to be a little too thin skinned at times. Take it for what its worth. Humility is not a fault you know. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3552 Registered: Feb-05 | Well done Michael! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3553 Registered: Feb-05 | BTW I must add that I don't agree with everything in that long but well considered post but I respect that point of view. I really am moderate and see many points on both sides. The issue is grayer than it seems at first. Time for a Scotch and a little jazz courtesy of my tubes and ProAc's. Good evening gentlemen. PS, good job Nuck and Michael. I'll tip one to you both this evening |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9153 Registered: May-04 | . MW - I wasn't really looking for a political discussion when I got into this. If you'd like we can certainly proceed in that direction but I can't speak for anyone else. Let me comment on two topics touched on in your post, however. "If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win! ... President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transporta-tion. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously?" Point number one; Bush has kept his promise of being a uniter. He has managed to unite a sizable majority (58% plus/minus 3%) of Americans (and the rest of the world) against his policies. If we were united, Bush would not be considered by many in the world to be more dangerous than Bin Laden. The problem is we as Americans are even more divided as a nation than we were before he took office. We are now headed into another election cycle where Bush and Rove will try to play one party against another. We are headed into an election cycle where fear will be the predominant theme of one party. With his "torture or die" rhetoric, we are at a point in history where Bush is threatening to take us as a Nation in a direction against America has rallied, and brave people have died, many times in the last century. If we were serious about this, we would have our ports and harbors secured, we would have our chemical and nuclear plants protected, ... we would have all the luggage aboard passenger airlines inspected not just the Snapple someone is trying to carry on. We would apportion moneys to the cities most in danger, not to the Clinton, Illinois, Apple and Pork Festival. We would have the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting a war we mean to win, not that we mean to pass on to the next president. We would not assume peace in the Middle East will come at the point of a gun. There are dozens of things we would do before we got to ethnic profiling. Point number two; the professor asks for profiling. Tell me what we are looking for. What does a Muslim look like? Islam, as the article points out, comprises about 25% of the world's population. There are British Muslims, Spanish Muslims, Indonesian Muslims, Chinese Muslims, Izbekistan Muslims, Italian Muslims, and New York Muslims, to name a few. There are Muslims everywhere. Shall we pull all of them out of the line at the airport? What about our subways? Trains? Football games? Do we simply lock them up as FDR did with the Japanese-Americans? What do we do with converts? Art - I don't think the forum has a formatting way to state this appropriately, but try this; HA¥!!! You must be peeing yourself as you type, Art. First you go, then you stay. Decisive action, Art. Decisive. If you're going to stay, play by the rules. No tears! You got me at the wrong time and I have no patience for whiners. "It doesn't matter how old my referenced statement is." Awwww, geeeeez!!!! Stop taking the stupid pills, Art. Yes, you do need to defend your statements because they were *ucking ignorant! . . |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 177 Registered: May-06 | Jan, Ever see Jerry McGuire where "You had me with Hello"? No matter what you submitted, including some poignant responses which I read and reread. You lost me with the diversion to Art. Why? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3554 Registered: Feb-05 | "Awwww, geeeeez!!!! Stop taking the stupid pills, Art." Well that's quite grown up and intelligent. "You must be peeing yourself as you type, Art. First you go, then you stay. Decisive action, Art." Ah Jan you you must have forgotten that this is the Old Dogs thread. You act as though no one can remember when you were headed out the door. Jan, I never said I was leaving I only said that I would be checking in from time to time. Is this not time. "Yes, you do need to defend your statements because they were *ucking ignorant!" No actually I don't Jan...you aren't worth it. Once again you think you can tell me or anyone else what to do. Grow up! "play by the rules. No tears! You got me at the wrong time and I have no patience for whiners." Your rules Jan always your rules and no I don't think I will play by them. I'm independent and I'm free. If you take a close look at your angry words above you should easily be able to recognize what whining looks like. I caught you at the wrong time, are you serious...do you know who you are saying that to. Have you been paying attention? This last few months and especially the last week has been a day at the beach for me. You are an inredibly self centered individual Jan. I'm sure you don't see it that way, in fact the I'm sure all that you can see is the end of your rather snooty upturned nose. Am I grieving the loss of loved ones...yep, but don't mistake that for weakness Jan. I don't give in to your kind of bullying. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9154 Registered: May-04 | . Go ahead. Show me where I ever cried and said I wasn't coming back. Go through the whole forum and find a time when I didn't stand my ground against idiots like you, Art. I don't have to run, Art. Don't make sh!t up just to satisfy your needs, it only makes you look even more stupid and even more desperate to not answer any of my questions. I still want to know who you think was responsible for 9-11. Yes, you'll take that as another command and say you don't have to do what I say. No, you don't. You just have to stop saying stupid things or you'll prove yourself to be ignorant. You're wrong, Art. Admit it and move on. Do I know who I'm talking to? Do I know what you've been going through? Hell, yes, I do. You come crying to the forum every time you get a hangnail. You don't want my condolences, so you don't get my sympathy, sir. If you think you're the only one with problems, think again. "Poor, pitiful Art" isn't of any concern to me when you tell me to go to hell. And this "you're so childish" crap is just that. I'm tired of you, Art. You want to go - GO! You want to stay - stay. Just leave me alone and stop posting things without engaging your brain. . |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9155 Registered: May-04 | . MW - Why? Hell if I know. This has been going on for years now. A few (always the same) people get p!ssed when I prove them wrong, call me names and stomp off only to quickly return to get p!ssed again when I prove them wrong again, call me the same names and stomp off again only to return one post later. What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting different results? You'll have to draw your own conclusions from what you have read. Who's nuts here? . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3555 Registered: Feb-05 | "Go through the whole forum and find a time when I didn't stand my ground against idiots like you, Art." Last time we got into it you asked to go find when you name called. Voila! "You don't want my condolences, so you don't get my sympathy, sir. If you think you're the only one with problems, think again. "Poor, pitiful Art" isn't of any concern to me when you tell me to go to hell." Very nice. What a splendid person you are... "Just leave me alone and stop posting things without engaging your brain." I will post as I see fit and not as you see fit. If you follow what I post I wouldn't assume that it is me eho didn't engage the brain. "This has been going on for years now. A few (always the same) people get p!ssed when I prove them wrong, call me names and stomp off only to quickly return." Hogwash. You didn't prove me wrong in fact all that you have proved is that you have an out of control temper. I didn't stomp off and so I didn't need to return. Jan you are on a roll keep it up! Think I'll take a nice morning walk and have some breakfast. "You'll have to draw your own conclusions from what you have read. Who's nuts here?" Indeed! |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 334 Registered: Dec-03 | Dr Chong's email is 100% bogus...probably isn't even a Dr Chong. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 178 Registered: May-06 | http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=5000 Nice try. |
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