Yes, the Bamboo cab of the Sierra is implemented as more of an active componant, Dave. The XBR driver makes a big diff too... Not the same at all.
The Sierra is more likely to work on an insulated stand, as opposed to a loaded one. Light solid wood is good for them, let the cab resonate and be an active component.
I still own them in my surround sound system. They do a decent job in the midrange. The treble can be a little bright unless they're playing through my tube amp and they need a sub for bass. They're fairly neutral overall and I believe a pretty good speaker for the value. I've used mine in my 2 channel system on occasion just to hear something clearer than my Altecs in the treble and midrange. I doubt that you would love them but you wouldn't hate them either. For a smaller bookshelf, they go lower than you would expect and play a fairly wide range of music.
They put out incredibly good surround sound in a system like mine with the Adcom amp and Outlaw pre/pro and I use the larger Ascends for my fronts and center. I actually believe the 170s are more accurate and neutral than their slightly bigger brother.
As many people here have said, if you want a more musical speaker that will play a larger variety of music and go lower, look at the new Sierras that Dave is getting ready to release or wait on his floorstanders that he is working on. IMHO and I missed ya, bro.
I posted about a year ago that I bought them for giggles and sent them packing... I found them very blah and musically depressing. I really didn't think they did ANYTHING right.
Yes, the Bamboo cab of the Sierra is implemented as more of an active componant, Dave. The XBR driver makes a big diff too... Not the same at all.
The Sierra is more likely to work on an insulated stand, as opposed to a loaded one. Light solid wood is good for them, let the cab resonate and be an active component.
I think you might have mistakenly confused our Sierra-1 with another loudspeaker. The Sierra-1's cabinet is extremely inert, with remarkably well controlled resonance modes. Bamboo is extremely rigid and stiff and this stiffness pushes resonance modes up higher in frequency which causes them to dissipate much quicker. That feature combined with the vertically oriented 1/4" panels epoxied together, which act as multiple constraining layers; all combine to produce a loudspeaker cabinet that is almost completely inert through the operating bandwidth of the speaker. In addition, the vertical orientation of the panels takes full advantage of Bamboo's remarkable internodal strength, of which has been measured at a tensile strength stronger than steel.
Also, If you are referring to an XBL^2 driver (you used the term XBR), I should mention that we do not use an XBL^2 driver.
No problem at all. I believe there is another loudspeaker out there that uses a rather thin bamboo cabinet (ours is 3/4") that is a single piece of bamboo, not multi-layered and not vertical grain that does use the resonance modes of the cabinet as an active component of the speaker (much like a bamboo flute). It was not an American company and the name escapes me but it did have a rather interesting sound characteristic.
If you can, please point me towards that blog as I would be curious as to what information was being discussed.
"If you can, please point me towards that blog as I would be curious as to what information was being discussed."
Don't you scour the internet for people saying things about your speakers that you don't like?
Why is that whenever Ascend is mentioned, people come out of the woodwork to defend them? I was figuring Quinn would be here, as the only time he adds anything is when Ascend get mentioned. Not a word about anything else, only that Ascend is the best. There's a few other cronies who do the same, but their names currently escape my memory.
Calm down guys. I have had the pleasure of speaking with Dave Fabrikant on multiple occasions. He's very knowledgeable, loves his speakers, pours his life into his work and happens to be one of the nicer guys who make their living doing this audio thing that I've had the pleasure to talk with about it.
I just read his post and he was simply responding to Nuck's post, agreeing with most of it and clarifying a couple points. I don't see that he did any type of sales job at all.
Frankly, I appreciate the fact that several smaller manufacturers are willing to lend their experience and love for audio on here. I've seen Dave F, Tim, Jim Salk and Dennis Murphy all comment in here on occasion in different areas and I'm sure there are others.
And, I'm not coming "out of the woodwork to defend them", i.e., the speakers, I'm coming out of the woodwork to defend a very nice gentlemen. Frankly, Stu, I think your post is way off base and it was little too sarcastic in the response given Dave F's posts. Me thinks the gentleman doth protest too much.
I've spoken with Dave F. several times as well, and he is indeed a super nice guy. He's even taken the time outside of normal business hours to speak to me about his products.
Unfortunately it appears Ascend has been tarnished on this board by some of the people that have been here in the past. It's too bad really, and unfair. Dave F. was awesome with me every time I talked to him. Very helpful. My Sierra's are very fine speakers IMO.
Sorry David and Chris, I don't care if the Pope has talked with him his behavior sucks in my opinion. Do your see Alan Shaw jumping on every forum when Harbeth speakers get a mention or John DeVore when his speakers are talked about, no. Let the product do the talking, if you can.
There wasn't a thing unfair about the prior discussions relative to Ascends. We had one or two people who were fanatical about them, calling giant killers able to unseat every comer up to a grand and others who disagreed. Nothing unfair about it.
My problem with Ascend is that no one can say anything negative about them (or anything at all for that matter) without a few cronies coming out of the woodwork to tell you you don't know what you're talking about. Add to that David Fabrikant's excahange with Tim a few years ago, and you have my reasons for my feelings towards them.
I'm not outright accusing Acsend of it, but it really seems like he's got a few guys on his payroll who scour the internet looking for any conversation involving Ascend. Every thread that has Ascend in it has guys like Quinn involved. There were a couple other guys whose names escape my memory as it's been a while since the speakers were mentioned. None of these guys have ever contributed anything at all to any conversation other than Ascend stuff. It gets old. I hate to imply that (as I'm not accusing), but that's all I see. And it'snot just here by any means.
Look at my first post. I said "...our boy Quinn will be here shortly." I was wrong; David showed up instead.
I've got nothing against a guy who's got enthusiasm for his product. I have absolutely nothing against a guy who helps out his customers and tries to get his product to work well in his customers' homes. I don't think there's enough of that. But I have a problem with guys scouring the internet and jumping all over people who don't like the speakers.
I'm not defending the speakers or damning the speakers. I just thought the reaction to David F's post was over the top. I'm re-read it several times and I still don't get the objection; sorry Art and Stu.
As for the conversation between David F and Tim, please give Tim a call, the two of them worked it out, ended up having several follow-up discussions and Time was fine with David F so . . .
Anyway, at the beginning of this post, I simply commented on the Ascend 170s, which in my humble opinion do a very nice job as the sides and rears on my 7.1 channel set-up. So, I'm outta here on this one guys.
99% of my objection is no one can mention Ascend without those guys jumping in. As I said, it's like they put Ascend in a Google search and flock to whatever comes up. Quinn has a few hundred posts here, none of which have anything to do with any other topic. He's got the same track record elsewhere. There's a few others too. That's my issue.
I've stated it several times in the past... The Ascend 170 SE isn't my cup of tea. It measures well (if that's important) and does little very little wrong. It's a very dull and uninvolving speaker to my ears.
That's OK, David. It ain't that big a deal to me. The fella is free to post anywhere he wants and I'm free to find it tasteless.
Remember that DF's post wasn't objectionable to me, it's the fact that he or one of the other Ascend fanatics seem to show up every time someone says something about the speakers that isn't 100% favorable that I find tasteless.
But, I'll say it again...in the end it doesn't matter a bit to me. I made my comment on the subject just as he did and so be it.
Fair enough Art. I know that there is a (bad) history on the forum with Ascend, that was before my time here. All I can speak to regarding Ascend is that I've had a great experience with their products and with dealing with Dave F.
Actually David I was referring to Daks, but it's all good. I don't really have a good or bad history with the product. I listened to them in what very well could have been sub optimal conditions and wasn't real impressed. As I said back then and would say again. If I were to find a used pair simultaneous to being flush I'd pick 'em up just for giggles.
Art... I thought you DIDN'T care for the 170 at all.
Or was it the Aperion that I am thinking of.
On the subject of factory direct speakers... I have yet to see anyone mention Axiom in a positive light. I think Eddie did liek them, but most people describe them having a hard, bonky, edgy type of sound... and bright.
I didn't like what I heard from the 170 the one time I listened to them. Same with earlier Aperions, However Aperion has improved considerably and their latest offerings are quite respectable.
Quinn doesent matter to me how av123 is doing or not doing im not a groupie stooge such as yourself and a few other ascend boys,now anyway....
I spoke with David F. on AVS it was thru a cloud of fanboyism of course and people on here know he and I have never saw eye to eye especially the bullying of Tim,but i will give credit where its do.The Sierra was a very nice little speaker when i heard it at the RMAF in 2009,and i was even invited to go to the ascend facility to hear their new floorstander and to get to know David F. a little better without all the internet arguing.I live in LA now and Ascend is stationed there i was gonna go but i looked back at our long eventful and spiteful history,and i felt that i like it as it is, so they can continue their way of life and i'll continue mine.Im a very competitive person and sometimes that works both ends of the sword but i like being in that other camp and not the ascend camp our concepts of thinking and personalities are like water and oil,so when recommendations are needed and asked for i will consistantly speak of other brands,and their will be no sit down sessions with me and their crew that is it to me on this matter....